The Spoonpluggers Forum

I've been rereading the Green book and I don't understand the difference between a saddle and a hump. Any help is appreciated! Dean

Dean,

Welcome to Spoonpluggers.net, all your Green Book questons can be answered here. At least be kicked around from numerous angles I am sure!

A Hump is simply a increase in depth of the surrounding area. It can be 6" or 60' and can be any shape possible.

A Saddle is shaped just like what it is named after. An example can be a point or bar coming out into the lake, but instead of continuing to slope to the bottom, it may start to get shallower. It could join to an island or a hump.

Dean Butler wrote:I've been rereading the Green book and I don't understand the difference between a saddle and a hump. Any help is appreciated! Dean

Definitions can be an issue. Thanks for asking and never feel uncomfortable asking. Welcome!

Hump - Think of it as a pile of something rocks, dirt, gravel anything. Can be in deep water, shallow, or in between. I've heard it called a 4 sided structure but I am not really comfortable with that because if you have a hump on the end of a bar, then its just a feature (break) of something else.

Saddle - that's an easier definition. A saddle is a high area between 2 deeper sections of water. Lets say you have 2 holes where one hole is 20 feet deep and the other hole is 35 feet deep. Lets say there is an area between the holes that comes up to 12 feet. The high area between the holes is the saddle. A 2 sided structure that is really important.

Saddles can be very subtle, very deep, and gradual. Very important especially when the weather doesn't allow for the fish to move that far from the deep to the shallows.

Thanks for the Definitions, that clears that part up..........Dean

You can also think of a hump as an under water island. Welcome to Spoonpluggers.net!!! Good fishin, Woody

Fran,what you're describing as a saddle,would be a invirted saddle. A saddle is the deeper area between two shallower areas. As 2 humps being connected by a saddle.

Now after doing some research and making some phone calls there should be some clarification. However, I am correct.

First, Saddles are a high area between two deeper sections. They can be VERY important but not all saddles are the same. The deeper the saddle is the better it will be. In fact if the top of the saddle is still in the sanctuary depth (30-35 feet or deeper - depending on color) the better is will be.

If we look at a long bar and out at the very end of the bar is an island, if there is water on either side of the bar that goes to sanctuary depths, that's a saddle as long as the bar is shallower than the deeper holes on either side. It may be productive, it may not be.

Now look at the picture below. This is a WIDE Sweeping Bar (over a mile wide) that I have put considerable time on. Can you find the saddle? BTW - this bar is my nemesis. I know there are a LOT of fish here. But I have yet to catch anything. It's kind of a tea stained Florida water color and getting fish out of this reservoir has been really tough for me. Now I have spent A LOT of time working my way down the outside of the bar. But I just haven't had the skill to fish the saddle like I should. I will keep trying but 63 feet is just barely out of my range of control.

Now why is this saddle so important...Fish live somewhere in the holes - hell they may live on top of the saddle. But if the biggest fish (musky to 50+ inches and walleyes well over 10 pounds) live in the 75 feet (and I think they do because of color) the fish may be active but will NEVER get to the top of the bar except for rare occasions (spawning). But they may spend a lot of time on the saddle. Quick exit to deep water and an awesome path to shallow water. Nearly a perfect situation - at least on the map. I should be showing pictures of all the 10 and 15 pound walleyes I caught from this spot but it just kicks my ass every time. Plus boat traffic and high ramp fees make this an occasional fishing trip at best.

I mean if you look it is the PERFECT structure situation. Large flat at top of bar for spawning. Casters get a lot of musky here during the spawn. Plenty of area for the large and smallmouth to spawn (walleyes migrate north to the headwaters). Great summer structure with the long, multiple breaklines descending into deep sanctuary water. Then it has the perfect winter structure that is more vertical (east side of picture). Maybe I am missing something but this sure looks like a good spot.

Fran
I could be completely wrong but I agree with David. I was taught that "A saddle is the deeper area between two shallower areas". I would not go as far as calling your definition "A Inverted saddle" but more a ridge, hump or deep flat.
Now again I could be completely wrong on your map but Why is 63-66 foot so important if It does not go all the way to the shallows? If there are no breaks leading the fish to the 63-66 foot why would the fish travel over those flats to get there when they have a much quicker, shorter route?
Im not trying to argue, just would like to clear things up for my own learning process.

Thanks
Bink

Bink,
A deeper area between a two shallower areas is a "slot".
Attached are two sections out of the home study course. You're right of course with some of your other questions and that may be why I haven't had any success on this particular structure but I haven't been able to put a lure on it so I haven't been able to check. You do deserve better answers but I just got called to work so it will be later in the day. Good Morning.

Bink wrote:Fran
Now again I could be completely wrong on your map but Why is 63-66 foot so important if It does not go all the way to the shallows? If there are no breaks leading the fish to the 63-66 foot why would the fish travel over those flats to get there when they have a much quicker, shorter route?
Bink

Bink,
I may have over reacted a bit with David but nowhere is the term "Inverted Saddle" ever used in the publications and it isn't in the 17 Structure situations hand book.

Shallower area is connected to deeper water and the bar. When the fish get active in the sanctuary the conditions MAY not and probably are not good enough to go all the way to the shallows. But they could easily find there way to a saddle, stop there, and have the ability to drop back deeper easily.

Now the 63 foot area MAY not be that important in the scheme of things because it is so deep but it does lead all the way. Heck it hits the bar and if the the fish want to go shallower the opportunity is there. Now if you look at the pictures I put on my last post, the second one Buck talks about the saddle being important because there MAY not be any recognizeable structure other than the saddle. That CERTAINLY doesn't go all the way, but when the fish get active they must follow a path...and thats the only one available - that we see. Hopefully during our fishing/mapping process we find something that tells us where the fish go after. Muck lines, big rocks (In a different lake I found a line of rocks the size of Volkswagens leading from 55' to a bar on the other side of the lake. Do the fish use it? I don't know but I found the path and I don't think anybody else knows about it.)

Fran
I agree that the inverted Saddle is not a structure situation but I did understand what he was trying to say.

When the fish get active in the sanctuary the conditions MAY not and probably are not good enough to go all the way to the shallows. But they could easily find there way to a saddle, stop there, and have the ability to drop back deeper easily.

Now this is the exact reason I think the fish would not use this area bc they can make a much shorter movement to the same depths on the sides of the structure.

While the situation does fit the definition of a saddle, I would agree with Bink. With all the fingers coming off the big bar there's bound to be a contact point on one or more of them. I'd work the fingers first. Just my 0.02.

I agree. They may not use the saddle. But when you hammer all those spots you highlighted (which I did my self a few years ago) and still not get anything, they have to be some where. Big structure - certainly more than one answer.

Fran,
Agree with more than one answer. Good for discussion. What are the dimensions of the structure, i.e. width of the bar E-W, width across the holes, length of the bar N-S, etc.? I didn't highlight anything; they were already there.

Jim

jwt wrote:Fran,
Agree with more than one answer. Good for discussion. What are the dimensions of the structure, i.e. width of the bar E-W, width across the holes, length of the bar N-S, etc.? I didn't highlight anything; they were already there.
Jim

Using Google Earth:
The distance of the base breakline is 3250 feet (OK - less than a mile, but still pretty big)
The length of the north hole is 1251 feet
The length of the south hole is 1900 feet
The length of the saddle is 590 feet
Width of bar is 1200 feet at widest west to east.
Width of bar is 2600 feet at widest north to south
Width of the south hole is 1200 feet
Width of the north hole is 502 Feet

Bink highlighted it. All are good spots. I have really good 3D pictures of the bar. There are slides and boulders. Great structure, lots of current and deep water. I think when I fish it next time I will just pound the base breakline and the saddle. Heck with all these breaklines from 15 feet to 55 feet.