The Spoonpluggers Forum

While on the water the other day I had one of my trolling reels breakdown and realized that the only spare reel I had with me had 30lb. power pro line and being I always use no-bo I was unsure how it would work. After figuring out how many layers it was for 10 yds. I was able to determine line lengths. I put on a 100 series and was amazed how much less line it took to achieve the depth and how the feel was more like going to wire. I thought that maybe with the limpness of the thinner diameter line it may foul on the hooks, but this never happened, probably because I was using the 80lb. no-bo leader which may have prevented this. Do any of you guys use this instead of the no-bo or is this a to good to be true thing? I have used no-bo for 25yrs. but this really opened my eyes. Bill Beck

ive been using spiderwire for years not only trolling but also for c-rigs and buzzbaits.

I have been on the side of PowerPro before. But I changed.
I started using it for leaders on my wire set ups and I loved it. I even dragged up a bed spring with it one time on the Mississippi River. I had a great year but then I started having problems...

First I had a friend of mine cast a lure with the reel full of PowerPro. The line parted in the middle. Not at a knot or from an abraided area I was too lazy to cut out, just in the middle.
Then I was trolling with it. I was so happy with it that I converted my NoBo line to PowerPro. Anyway, I started losing a lot of lures banging on the rocks and for no reason at all. OK, abraided away. But I noticed that the ends were NOT in an abraided area.

What I and some of the Instructors came up with is (I am taking no credit in the discovery) is that these composite lines can't handle the shock of a big fish strike or pounding of constant Spoonplugging.

I love the fact that the lures go so much deeper with less line. I really loved that tying knots in it was real easy cause not all super lines are. But I went back to NoBo. I use 12lb and cut a lot away and get deeper with same line lengths.

I am not trying to start anything. Everyone will get comfortable with their tools. In fact I may have 1500 yards of Red 65 pound PowerPro I'd be willing to give for a reasonable offer. But I don't use it for anything anymore.

I was having wear problems with braid, then Wayne from the Chattanooga Spoonplugs told me to use a couple feet of wire for a leader. Not one problem since in two years! I use 30 lb. test braid and it usually adds about 2-4 feet to my normal
No-Bo lengths. Yes, the feel is almost wire like, but you better back your drag off. Especially with new Spoonpluggers or someone not use to no stretch! My drag is backed way off, I thumb it if necessary until I can tighten it up if needed.

Bill

I have used 30LB Braided line in the past and I lost quite a few lures especially when you are bumping hard bottoms and worst yet when bumping rocks. It does not withstand shock very well. I do like braided Power-Pro and for trolling I use 60LB, it is the same diameter of 12LB No-Bo line. For casting I use 80LB. Just the other day I had a reel with 30LB that I used on Lake Geneva to get deep and just tip the top of the weed, I made the mistake to use it on the Fox Chain O Lakes and I lost a 250SP. Iam through with it.

Gino

All line has its own pros and cons. All line has its place in the realm of fishing situatiions. There are situations where I always use NO-BO. Likewise, there are those where I always use braid and still others where I use wire. BTW, all braid is not created equal, but this is a subject for another time. At any rate, it is up to the fisherman to learn these attributes if he has any desire to capitalize on the pros and overcome the cons.

All braid I have ever seen has/had poor shock resistance, even the magnificent Spiderwire Spectra 2000 (long since off the market). To overcome this problem, never tighten the drag tighter than required to barely keep line from paying out on the troll. Also, keep your thumb off the spool so the drag can protect the line when hard hangs or strikes occur. After the initial shock of the hard hang/strike, it is mandatory to use an educated thumb on the spool. This overcomes the poor shock resistance. If you do not believe it, give it a try and see for yourself.

To overcome the poor abraision characteristics of braid, run a wire leader the length of your rod (the longer, the better). This keeps the line from contacting the bottom and gives the added benefit of increasing depth by three or four feet. As Gary sez, it works, and I like that extra depth.

James Clark told me that braid is like having your hand next to the fish's mouth while wire is like having your hand inside his mouth. I like the feel of braid because it is second only to wire.

This year I was introduced to Power Pro by Wayne Alford and Kenny Hyde in Tenn and started using it and it works very well. I use 4 ft of 12lb wire leader so I have not experienced loss of lures due to zebra mussels or sharp rocks, it seems to be doing well. The worst thing that I have experienced is during a hang and I have had a few bad entanglements of the PowerPro and plug knocker and I have had to cut out line and lost about 50 feet the last time. If someone is in the boat they can take up line on the reel while I work the plug knocker and I haven't had a problem there, just when I am by myself. Wayne Alford told me to always keep the excess line in the water instead of the bottom of your boat as it will not tangle with anchor rope or anything else in the boat. It is very soft and gets tangled easy if not on the reel. I am going to try FireLine for awhile as it is a little stiffer and see how it works.

Steve

Steve, when fishing by yourself, you must pull the freed lure up by the fishing line, not the lure knocker line. This keeps the braid tight during the entire retrieval process. Since it is tight all the way back to the boat, there is no chance for it to develop one of those bad tangles. Life gets simple after that.

If you use Fireline, test it to see if you sacrifice any depth with it.

Thanks, everyone for your replies. The one thing that still has me a bit puzzled is that the powerpro line tends to break from the rigors of tipping and bouncing off hard bottoms, rocks ect. Wouldn't a length of the 80lb. no-bo leader offset this?, or do you mean that it will snap farther up the line. I was very impressed with the shorter line lenghths and sensitivity but don't want to sacrifice lost lures or worse yet a big late fall Muskie. Bill Beck.

Hey Bill

I may have mislead you. I only had problem with the 30LB. Braided line. I hate to mention brand but the one I had the most trouble was the Spider wire line. I use 80LB Power-pro for casting and 60LB. Cortland braided for Spoonplugging. Cortland it has been making muskie line for a long time, I have been using it for at least 15 years. The lower poundage line does not have knot strenght. I think that the line it is so thin that actually cuts through the knot. I believe there may be some other brands at 30LB that may work, another spoonplugger mentioned that by having your drag a litle loose and thumb the spool it would prevent the line to break at the knot, I actually I do it this way , so when I get on a hang my line will not break. The 30LB. it defenetely gets these spoonplugs down to their designed depth with less line

Gino

A leader will protect braid from abraison in most waters. The leader must be long enough to prevent the braid from contacting the bottom. However, there are waters that contain standing timber, bushes and tall rocks that will abrade the line above the leader. Bridge pilings and abutments will also take a toll on braid. Therefore, a smart fisherman will take these factors into consideration when choosing line to be used in any particular body of water.

Many leader types will work, but monofilament will hurt the depth while metal will enhance it. I want all the depth I can get; therefore I use wire. I have a lifetime supply of Buck's 20# wire, so I elect to use it. Some guys are using titanium wire leaders and they are impressive indeed, but they are expensive. 20# titanium is about 1/4 the diameter of Bucks 20# wire, it will not kink or curl and can be tied like mono. It remains straight as a broom stick at all times, yet is amazingly flexible. A few fishermen are using stainless leaders that is usually seen in salt water environments only. You must consider what you are trying to accomplish and choose leader material accordingly. Like everything else in this world, there is a learning curve that you must muddle through.

In my early experience with Spiderwire Spectra 2000, it was so slippery that a regular knot would untie itself by slipping apart. The snap and lure would be lost at that point. A friend showed me a knot, I do not remember the name of it, but about 14 inches of line is doubled and passed through the eye of the hardware twice. One of the two turns through the eye is held open in the form of a small loop for use later on. The doubled line is then wrapped around the standing line six times, from way up the line, down toward the snap. Then, the doubled line doing all that wrapping is passed thru the aforementioned small loop. When all this is done, wet the knot and draw it down tight. Cut all tag ends to make a smooth knot. For more than 15 years, I have used this knot for two or three consecutive days of fishing without complaint. One day, I caught 97 pounds of catfish at Santee-Cooper on the same knot. It is one tough knot.

Do any of you guys know which braid will attain the greatest depth? I'd like to know.

Bill,
Try a line made from Dyneema. It is the strongest man-made fiber and resistant to abrasion. It is also resistant to UV light and chemicals. Berkley Fireline and Cabela's Ripcord are made from Dyneema. Power Pro and most other braids are made from Spectra. Both kinds of line float.

Mono has a 15% dry stretch factor, Dyneema has 5% and Spectra has 2%. Because of that, hitting a snag trolling a braided line will reach its breaking point very quickly while mono will stretch; 50' of some mono lines will stretch up to 8' to 10' feet after being in the water for an hour. In tests braided line soaked in water for 1 hr will stretch 12".

On the Madison Chain I've reached 26' with an 800 and 16 layers of 20 lb Ripcord. I tie about a 4' 17 lb No-Bo shock leader to the braid with an Albright knot and use an 8" - 10" wire leader when fishing for toothy critters. Put the clicker on and set the drag just tight enough to keep the line from inching out while trolling. I also have the anti-reverse off and keep my thumb on the spool. The line will peel out when you hit a snag, and I've hit many of 'em. When you hang a fish tighten the drag to the point you can reel 'em in.

Maybe see you on Waubesa one day.

spnplgr

The knot you describing is Berkley Trilene Knot, some time also referred as Dowble Jam Knot, the only difference is that you are dowbling the line. It is a very good knot. Trilene has a newr knot called Improved Berkley Triline Knot this knot beside going back to the two small eye loops it returns back to the main line loop. Another Knot that is very popular with braided lines is the Uni-Knot or sometime called the Duncan Knot. Good Fishing

Gino

This year I made an interesting observation. A long-time, out-of-state Spoonplugger, decided to come here for an extended fishing trip. For about 10 years, he has used Cabela's 15# Ripcord. He knew he had lost quite a lot of line on his reel and needed to respool with new line before leaving home. Once on the road, he realized he had forgotten to change the line out and even worse, realized he had failed to bring his stash of new line with him.

Once here, he went to Wally World, bought and spooled 30# PowerPro for the next day's fishing trip. Once on the water, he let out 8 layers of line and was surprised how qickly his lure made contact with the bottom. His wife let out 8 layers of 15# Ripcord but could not hit the bottom. Again and again, she let out more line until she contacted the bottom. She said it took 20 layers!

Now, this was told to me. I did not experience it directly, but I can tell you from his reaction, he was surprised by the results. He reported it happened the same way every day of the trip.

To my dismay, when he got home he removed the PowerPro and replaced it with Ripcord because he said the Ripcord was white and easier to see! UFB!!!

These results and others along these same lines, have raised a question in my mind. Which braid will attain the deepest resuts? I'd like to know. If anyone knows, please advise.

BTW, many years ago someone marketed a line called Kevlar but I cannot remember who. I bought and loaded the line. After just 20 minutes on the water, the line separated and I lost the lure, snap and a bunch of line. I retied and went back at it. About 20 minutes later, the same thing happened again. That line made it no further than the first trash can I encountered once back at the ramp. Heartburn!

I absolutely agree with the depths achieved with PowerPro, I stopped using it for other reasons - previously described above.