Casting at new location

[bucksnort]

OK i have a couple of short points that i can't troll real well. the "book " say that Buck would only make 5 cast. I can see that if you know the spot but on a new point how many is reasonable to map it out? Are the 5 cast just to check for shallow fish?
would i want to sit on top and fan cast and then maybe move to the sides and cast parallel?
just for discussion this situation is at cove/creek channel. i don't know far the main channel is from where i would cast but i believe it to be beyond casting distance without moving deeper. i have two coves like this and have caught fish shallow while trolling. there are no weeds but plenty of stumps scattered about.

thanks for your thoughs,
charlie

[WhopperStopper]

Bucksnort, I would cast this area using my spoonplugs first using the depth that my boat was in as a guide to which depth spoonplug I used,as I checked my faster speed control first. Then if I caught no fish I would then go to my jump lures as I checked the slower speeds. I would cast parallel to the shoreline first then fan cast outward toward the deeper water from an anchored position. If I didnt feel that I reached the deepest water their, then I would move my boat outward and began the process again by fan casting. Each time you make a cast, LOOK where that cast is being made by getting a line sight from the shore line out from you. This way if you do hook a fish you can cast back to that same spot again. Line sights and markers become more and more important as you work further and further from the shore line. To answer the question of how many cast to make. I think you should make as many as you feel that you need to in order to be certain that you have covered that area to the fullest extent. If you feel you have checked it really good and you catch no fish then you can move to another potential area and began the process over OR you stay in the same area and exercise PATIENCE for the fish to become active as you began this process over. Sometimes the movements can be so short that it may take place while you are riding from spot to spot and you would never know it happened. If you have done your homework and feel that this area should produce for this seasonal time I would say have patience and stick it out. If you do change locations. Try to pick the best one that is close by as you TROLL from one spot to the other. If you have good enough water color to allow active fish to come in your reach you should pick up some fish on the troll. This can be indicators that a movement may be about to take place. I dont mind admitting that I dont have as much time under my belt as John Bales and some of the others, so this has been my experience. Hope this helps!

W/S

[david powell]

Before you make a 1st cast,you have to
look ove the surrounding area,then judge should it be given further effort.If yes then you must give it a quick check with your depth finder,if you think it has possiblities, then you must map it,either in your mind or put it on paper,which is best.Then and only then will you know how to cast it and maybe how many cast to make. You say you dont know how far away the channel is,WHY NOT this is infomation you need to know.

[bucksnort]

OK here's my plan. i sketched out what i know about this area. i know the fish use it because ive pulled several bass-small and one 36" northern in the area. i'm going to start on the inside of the cove and cast parallel to the creek channel starting shallow and working each cast deeper. i think it will take 3 positions to get out to the old river channel. before i cast i'll place a marker out on the point and maybe one at where i figure the creek meets the river channel.

i'll have my clipboard and pencil ready to take notes. caught the northern yesterday so i'm excited to get out there tonight and LEARN why i caught that fish there. full report tomorrow!

[bucksnort]

well i got out as planned. trolled my way there and hooked one small bass along a stretch i've usually ignored. learned that there may be possiblities i was over looking. trip already a success!
got to point of interest and placed 2 markers as planned. learned that i need to use markers more! took 4 positions to cover one side of cove/creek channel and 3 on the other side. first side was longer than other and smooth with slow slopes to creek and river channel. second side was short and steep with lots of rocks and wood ( caught northern on this side the day before.) it also has 2 trees that lay from shallows and reach the bottom of the slope at 8'. very flat out toward creek/river channel. flat reaches to river channel that is 12'( deepest water in area).
how do fish get from deep to shallow i can't answer yet. i suspect the creek channel is silted in as i dragged up leaves/ect. and my spoonplug hit nothing hard at all! hope to be on this spot some time when the fish are moving to help unravel the migration route.

i welcome your comments!

thanks charlie

[whopper Stopper]

Bucksnort, Sounds like you have a strong desire. That coupled with time spent on the water is a great combination! Its took me almost ten years to finally figure out how important MAPPING is. You MUST MAP. Everytime you go back to work a structure, you will learn more and more about it. Ill never forget when I started out spoonplugging, their was and still is a lake near the town my wife was raised in that is known to the locals as CITY POND. It is a city water reservoir that is in the neighborhood of 75 acres in size. After asking around it didnt take me long to realize that their was NO contour map ever made of this lake. I find this to be true with many watersheds of this type. Longer story a little shorter. I decided to use my boat, my flasher fishfinder, pencil and paper and go to work on this lake. I wanted to KNOW what was underneath that flat surface of water. I had to know if I ever was to get serious about spoonplugging it. To began with, I made SURE that NORTH was pointing UP on my map. You may not think that is all that important, but it is. You must have a point of reference on your map so it will be right. Turn a map of Florida or N.C upside down, put it back on the U.S map and tell me how it looks with NORTH pointing DOWN,,,dont look right does it? The shape is backwards. It took me a few weeks of going back and forth with what time I had available but I got that lake mapped. It might not have been perfect,,but I KNEW where that channel ran. I KNEW the depths involved. I learned how important my MARKERS were to show me the shape and width of the channel and where it made turns. Most importantly (I) had my own map of this lake. Actually the city of Wadesboro has a copy of this map and also there is a bigger version of the map inside the pay building near the boat ramp. I havent even got to fish this lake much at all since the time of mapping it but I hope to get back down that way this summer. Also I didnt mention one of the most important things in this mapping process and that is that it didnt take long for my spoonplugs to let me know where the bottom of this lake had muck, hard bottom, stumps etc. Yes If you adjust the sensitivity of a depth sounder it will show this to some degree, but my spoonplugs will verify that in real time. Many times it will show you SAMPLES of shells, weeds etc. And just as in your case, you will began to relate your catches to PRODUCTIVE structures. In the final picture the SPOONPLUG is going to tell you a good LOOKING spot from a PRODUCTIVE spot. Mr. Perry has already told us that a fish finder is a great aid, however once you have mapped out a structure and pitched out your markers, that depth finder has done its main job. THEN you must FISH IT. That depth finder has NO HOOKS ON IT. At least I know my dosent But your spoonplug does. ( Use those markers and shoreline sightings.) Know in your mind and on YOUR MAP, whats down their and "where you were when you hooked that fish", and when its all said and done,,,, It will be on YOUR map,,,from now on,,or untill some major bottom change occurs. To a spoonplugger, thats like finding that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! :-" :-" :-"

Good fishing Bucksnort
W/S

[DouglasBush]

Well stated and the gospel truth too!

[bucksnort]

Well i have a half day to fish tomorrow but we're supposed to have a cold front pass thru late today. since i'll be MAPPING not fishing i'll still have a good trip.
have a new idea on how to work this cove/points and i'm going to start mapping another creek mouth that i've always wanted to checkout. might also head up river to some shallower water. lots of rain may have the water color better.

question for you all. since i have limited number of spoonplugs i try to use other diving plugs in stiuations i know well. plug like bombers,hot-n-tots,ect. do any of you do like wise? do you know dive depths for various ones?

wish me luck facing the cold front tomorrow!

[Fran Myers]

Even if the cold front passes today, the first day after the front is generally not too bad. In fact some of my better catches were day after. We got into a school casting a couple weeks ago, 15 on consecutive casts.

On the other hand I do straggler fish, and stick pretty close to the 10' breaklines or important breaks close to those depths.

In the early part of the season I use Shad Raps that run the 10 to 12 foot range. We really did well with them on the Smallmouth in May. The issue is that the lures other than spoonplug can't do depth and speed at the same time, or you have too much or too little line. There are an awesome amount of good lures that run that 10 foot range but after things start getting warm, I stick to spoonplugs.

[bucksnort]

Fran
thanks for the feedback! it's encouraging to know that you've done well after a front.
i hear what you say about lots of lures that run down to ten feet but few that can go deeper, not to mention you don't knowhow deep really unless your working a know area.
i'll be snorkeling tomorrow to recover a spoonplug i lost last week in less than ten feet of water. my biggest problem in losing lures is the zebra mussels tearing up my line and not retying often enough.!

thanks again charlie

[DouglasBush]

Well i have a half day to fish tomorrow but we're supposed to have a cold front pass thru late today. since i'll be MAPPING not fishing i'll still have a good trip.
have a new idea on how to work this cove/points and i'm going to start mapping another creek mouth that i've always wanted to checkout. might also head up river to some shallower water. lots of rain may have the water color better.
question for you all. since i have limited number of spoonplugs i try to use other diving plugs in stiuations i know well. plug like bombers,hot-n-tots,ect. do any of you do like wise? do you know dive depths for various ones?
wish me luck facing the cold front tomorrow!

If you're mapping correctly you will be fishing correctly at the area you 've chosen to map. Mapping and "fishing" are one in the same.
I can't begin to tell how many fish I've caught while mapping. That ridiculous looking spoonplug just keeps on bouncing and digging and sooner or later it finds some fish.
Relax and enjoy! Unless you're so far away from a STRUCTURE SITUATION you have little chance to hit some.
Remember what Buck said..."there are zillions of structures in a body of water but only a few STRUCTURE SITUATIONS. Play tight percentages and gamble wisely with your time.
(I've shown spoonplug maps I've made over the years to people and they say.."hell man, 80% of all your lake structure maps are just causeways or variables nearby". I reply.."so what? thats all that is needed to catch fish in those lakes...why go trying to fix something thats not broke?")

[Fran Myers]

It's amazing how many people think there are fish all over a lake. Sure really small ones, but the majority of the "BIG" fish are in less than 2% of the whole lake. So Douglas it doesn' surprise me your maps are mostly causeways. In fact, your post just re-enforces my belief that I am doing a few things right, THANKS!

In thinking that what we do is localized or specific to one type of fish, John and I have been chatting a lot this season. Early in the season the bigger movements tended to be later between 5:15pm and 7pm. Right now the big movements seem to be between 12n and 1:15pm. We found the timing of the fish movements are literally the same in starting and ending.

John says the northerns and bass stopped at 1:17pm in Indiana, we stopped catching walleyes in Minnesota at about 1:15pm, and yesterday John told me Jerry wasn't catching much after 1pm.

Water Temps in Indiana are about 72degs, same as in Minnesota. This has been one of the tougher seasons I've had in the 5 years I've been Spoonplugging - Yet I have caught bigger fish, more fish and even got into a school, which for me is a first.

So using the Spoonplugs to map is great. And I have certainly written many articles that say have a goal before you get on the water, but I doubt you are going to go fishless this time of year.

Just keep fighting and it will come together.

Going to Indiana - Bye
Fran

[whopper Stopper]

Bucksnort, These guys have experience, dont pass up taking in what they are saying. Like Douglas said, by using the spoonplug which by the way, yes they are plenty of lures that will catch fish at one time or another, but Mr. Perry made that spoonplug as a MAPPING TOOL. To my knowledge, there is no other lure out there that will do that. Successful fishing will always be controlling the DEPTH and SPEED of your lure or bait or a set of false teeth as Mr. Perry once stated, AT THE SAME TIME. Sometimes you do have to sacrifice one for the other because of pure physics, but not by choice. Also, one thing I think all of these fellows will agree with is that,,before you know it, the whole fishing season has already come and gone. That was also stated by Mr. Perry. I think as we all get older we find that fact to be more and more evident. "I know I do". Thats why it is so important to keep a lure in the water as much as you can. Back before I ever got into spoonplugging and I had all the fast Bass boats, I spent so much time riding and looking around. I had some favorite spots that usually produced. Now I know why they did. Movements can be so short sometimes and then they can last a while. There again, like Mr. Perry said,,,you better figure on the shorter movements and not the longer ones. I know now looking back that there were many days spent on the water that I was RIDING and LOOKING when I should have had a hook in the water. The reason I didnt,,,is because I didnt know much at all about how fish used structure. It was purely a hit and miss proposition and was really a lot of luck when I did run into fish. Even so, I would have still have been limited to casting, that is if I could have kept that big boat anchored down. Anyway, I just look back at all of those years of fishing and not even knowing about Mr. Perry and his Spoonplugging knowledge. Its just a blessing that I ever ran into another spoonplugger that shared spoonplugging knowledge with me. But I can say one thing,, once I read that little green book (That he let me borrow) I KNEW that this was the real deal. ( Then I bought by own to study.) Dont pass up and opportunity of a lifetime. Spoonplugging knowledge IS the real deal. Its like a savings account, what you put into it, is what you get out of it. Plain and simple. Stay with it, "dont rush it." It WILL come with time and effort. And you can take that one to the bank!

"GOOD FISHIN "
W/S

[bucksnort]

got out as planned but not for as long as i hoped. the good news is i learned more!!!
first i did as i planned and casted to cover the area i'm mapping at a creek cove. added to my map some details. water was high and dirty, worked out to a depth of 10' and then went to explore another creek/cove area. first cruised it to get a feel for it. got excited when i found some deeper water then i thought was around-20'. most areas are not that deep. the old channel made a bend against a steep bluff that continues down into the hole. the old creek channel is half full of sediment but i started at the head of it in 4' of water and casted my way out til i could no longer stay on the bottom. also found some tall standing trees i never knew where there. then i had to leave! darn!
did leave time so that i could troll back learning more about things along the way.
read someone else post about how bad the season has been in terms of weather. i second the bad weather.

really appreciate you guys commenting! helpful and encouraging!

thanks charlie

[Bart]

Bucksnort,

The number one goal before getting on the water should be to learn more than the time before and it looks like you're heading in the right direction. If you read the study course Buck always talked about putting what you found on paper. He said it will be your best teacher. Buck didn't just say it once, he said it through the whole study course. Once you start moving that pencil you will see things come together.

Bart