Thoughts

[John Bales]

I don't usually read how to catch big bass books but have been reading a couple of them very recently. My background of spoonplugging has given me proven guidelines I have used for 50 years. At some time in my fishing life, I find out that there are many other ways to catch a fish year round that has opened my mind to thinking outside the box some. Those other so called methods of presenting lures (different depths and speeds), both casting and trolling come into play throughout the fishing season. These books contain their thoughts of catching the biggest bass in the lake and I must say that a few things seem a bit uncontrollable and off the wall thinking. Everything I have done in the past, my standard guidelines have been used to fall back on, or to keep what is going on in perspective. I guess just to keep me out of trouble. It has worked quite well for me and the learning continues. Last night I started on the second book. Not finished with the first one but started getting tired of waiting for something to really trip my trigger. This morning I was talking to a friend that is one of the best stick around. He has taught me a lot and I am sure he has learned a thing or two from me. He was fishing with a friend and they were both throwing the same lure. A small swim bait on a jig head. His partner was catching all the fish. Same size line, same lure, same retrieve rate as far as he could tell only my friend had not had a single hit while his buddy was catching them every cast. He said I let it go for as long as he could stand it. The only difference was that his buddy dipped the tail of his swim bait in a yellow dye. He finally did the same and caught a fish on the first cast and he finally started holding up his end of the catch. What if he was fishing alone. He may not have made the change. Depth, Speed, Size, Color and Action are what we are supposed to use as guidelines. Depth and Speed are 1 and 2 with the others not so important. You may have seen color be a factor now and then but is it something that we might change throughout a fishing day if it's not going well? I am not going to keep digging in the box for a different size, color, or action all the time but are there that many times that it could make a difference? Thinking outside the box can lead us to a learning experience but is there such a thing as taking it too far outside that box? Being a thinker is a good thing and has led me to many good catches over the years. Asking why is a part of it. Questioning everything is not a bad thing. I think that maybe these guys who write these books have caught a crap load of big bass because the lakes they are fishing have the big bass so they get a lot of attention. I will still finish both of these books because I just may stumble upon something that is said that I can relate to and think about. It is difficult to read information that others deem important, but lots of what they speak of is not really something that they can control. How can you say that these are guidelines when you cannot control them as a fisherman. I talk to a lot of other fishermen. The best conversations are with those that have the same guidelines as I have been given. John

[CHAMP]

To reply to what you are talking about John.
As stated b4 sometimes when I can, I put an extra rod in my rod holder while still having one in my hand.
This happened this past Tuesday, I ran a different lure on the rod holder rod.
Both big fish hit that rod, so without that I may have gone home empty handed.

[John Bales]

So are you giving credit to the lure itself? Was it running free. Were you running a spoonplug on the rod you were holding? Was the held rod bumping some? Since you weren't holding the other rod, how would you know it was bumping other than watching the rod tip now and then. What were the two lures you were running? Why do you suppose the rod in the holder caught the fish that day? What do you think? John

[Team9nine]

Good thoughts, John. I've read the books and articles, and studied most all of the big bass chasers and their theories and explanations over the years. I find them all very interesting, and not contradictory to what Buck has written and instructed us to do. In fact, my conversations with Paul Prorok reinforced that in many cases its the same principles and guidelines just applied differently. Bill Murphy and Buck Perry were just two sides of the same coin, in my opinion. I kind of view these 'big bass' specialists in a similar light as Live Scopers - If you have a solid foundation in Spoonplugging guidelines and principles, they'll just add to what you already know and you'll be able to discern "the wheat from the chaff." I also agree that "location," or which body of water you are fishing, makes all the difference, and why some of these guys can write these books. It's why nobody from Indiana will ever write one -

So what is this second book you are reading? Curious...

[John Bales]

Big Bass Zone. Bill Siemantel. Like I said before, I keep waiting for something to come along that could help me. So far, other than increasing the size of the baits you fish with, nothing has really given me much to be excited about. Not done with either of the books so maybe something will happen. Some movies are like this. You keep waiting for it to get better and it just never does. I think that's why I put the first book down and started reading this one. So far, they are similar. Bill hasn't mentioned Buck Perry yet. It's also interesting because lots of observations they assumed back then, we can see with livescope. Maybe I'll find something useful soon, I hope. I like the Bill Murphy book best so far. John

[CHAMP]

Bill Murphy
Bill Siemantel
Maybe you just had to be named Bill

[Team9nine]

Big Bass Zone. Bill Siemantel. Like I said before, I keep waiting for something to come along that could help me. So far, other than increasing the size of the baits you fish with, nothing has really given me much to be excited about. Not done with either of the books so maybe something will happen. Some movies are like this. You keep waiting for it to get better and it just never does. I think that's why I put the first book down and started reading this one. So far, they are similar. Bill hasn't mentioned Buck Perry yet. It's also interesting because lots of observations they assumed back then, we can see with livescope. Maybe I'll find something useful soon, I hope. I like the Bill Murphy book best so far. John

Both good books. I believe Murphy reference’s Buck twice in the book (along with Terry), but somewhat indirectly. Don’t think Siemantel mentions him at all, but he does in some of his other media ventures. You can easily pick up on the numerous Buck Perry/Spoonplugging influences throughout both books though. Last time I spoke with Paul, he spoke very highly of Siemantel, kind of the next level above Murphy.

[CHAMP]

John wrote
So are you giving credit to the lure itself? No Was still depth and speed control
Was it running free? yes it was running free above all the snags
Were you running a spoonplug on the rod you were holding? No another same type lure different size,style,color.action
Was the held rod bumping some? No cannot bump bottom, but the rod I was holding was hitting some of the higher stumps.
Since you weren't holding the other rod, how would you know it was bumping other than watching the rod tip now and then. Running depth of lure
And I had tested it in my hand b4 placing it in the rod holder.
What were the two lures you were running? Spinnerbaits 1 @1.5oz double willow leaf the other 1.0oz willow/colorado
Why do you suppose the rod in the holder caught the fish that day? What do you think? Depth and speed size/color/action or just plain dumb luck.

[CHAMP]

Can't remember who it was but some BIG BASS EXPERT was caught snagging his fish.

[Team9nine]

Can't remember who it was but some BIG BASS EXPERT was caught snagging his fish.

Mike Long

[John Bales]

Great information. Now I know more than I did before. Were you shallower than 8-10 feet. Take your time. Thanks........ John I get dumb luck too.

[CHAMP]

Water in the channel is only about 12', top of breakline from shallowest to deepest is 6' down to 10'.
The channel leads right into a good spawning bay.

[Steve Craig]

BBZ.......
I got asked to leave his site ( kicked off) because I tried to argue that everything they were teaching, was simply Buck Perry information regurgitated into their own words, with Bill's own little slant to it.
Cant argue with Bill's success, as he has made some amazing big bass catches. But how about just give credit where it is due!!!!
I had bought his video and was able to see some great catches. After this happened i wish I had never spent the money for the video.

On the other hand, I did learn a thing or two from Bill Murphys book, that has helped me to understand how these fish use and related to deep structure in these clear Highland Reservoirs. I do not believe that Bill ever fished anything but a Highland Reservoir. All those San Diego lakes are Highlanders. Deep, steep, and clear. Highlanders are different animals!

Chanp
Many times when using 2 rods, or even two fishermen running the same type lure, the fish will hit the lure that comes at it first. The guy with a slightly shorter line, ( 3 to 5 feet), causes the fish to hit the lure running ahead of the other one. Done this many times over the years with others in the boat. Kenny Hyde did it to me once and it cost me a big bass. You let back same number of feet, then crank one turn of the handle and you are set! I remember I did this trick to Brian on HL once!

[Team9nine]

BBZ.......
I got asked to leave his site ( kicked off) because I tried to argue that everything they were teaching, was simply Buck Perry information regurgitated into their own words, with Bill's own little slant to it.

Done this many times over the years with others in the boat. Kenny Hyde did it to me once and it cost me a big bass. You let back same number of feet, then crank one turn of the handle and you are set! I remember I did this trick to Brian on HL once!

Enjoyed the book, but agree on the heavy “rewording” of Buck’s concepts with all the BBZ stuff, but Siemantel was another that at least recognized Buck in some of his other ventures, and was one of the first to mention Buck’s passing and offer his condolences on his site.

As for the short line trick, I have the pics to prove Steve did this to me somewhere…

[Bink]

Man a lot of good insight here. I’m not familiar with the 2 books but have been listing and watching a ton of content on big bass chasers. A lot of guys do acknowledge Buck but it’s like Champ said there are typically misquoting Buck. One thing they do all have in common is they understand structure in some aspect.

The color swimbait tail thing like your buddy experienced has always made me wonder. Iv had days where one color out fished everything and other days it didn’t matter. Iv always figured if a good fisherman was there long enough, he’d figure out the small details like color/action. But finding the spot is the whole Key.

I run 2 rods anytime I can. Some days rod 2 gets them all some day it’s just in my way.

Mapping and interpretation is what separates the men from the boys. There’s a million ways to catch them but you have to be able to find them