The Spoonpluggers Forum

Our depth finder is a great aid for a lot of things. Try fishing without it. For the natural lake guys, when the thermocline is about gone and most of the deeper breaklines are open to the fish to use, there is something you can observe that will give you some very quick information. We still have to eliminate the unproductive breaklines by trolling each of the ones that are most important for this time of year. Here is something you can do to get you real close to where you need to be as far as depth. In the area you are looking to check, start out in the deepest water and head straight towards the shallows just like you are looking for the breaklines. The deepest breakline where you start seeing the fish on the bottom will get you close. You may have to go to the next one shallower but by observing what I just said will put you in the area you need to be in for that time of year. You want to see the fish near the bottom and not suspended. John

Thanks for the tip John. This weekend warrior was too sick to get out last weekend but I have to assume turnover is done on the lakes I fish. I can’t wait to get out this weekend.

Understanding the thermocline and how fish relate to it has been a struggle for me this year. The procedure you outlined in your post is something that I do when I’m mapping structure, determining the weed-line, looking for bait fish, etc. I always notice fish on the bottom below the thermocline but when I troll the breaklines below it I have yet to catch a fish. They are there but they are not active (or I’m not presenting my lure correctly). The green book and the Dickson videos don’t seem to consider the thermocline in our presentation of lures but I can’t seem to catch them downstairs. I hope that will change this fall with the more stable water column throughout the lake.

Still…I’m learning more and more with each fishing day and having fun.

Ken

Around here in the summer, you rarely see or catch any fish below the thermocline. I know they can be below it because I see the bass that are positioned above the thermocline follow my drop shots right through the thermocline and down to the bottom to get my offering. Most all breaklines to deep water is open for the fish to use now and the bait and the adult fish will be right on those breaklines. The dead give away is what breaklines you see the most fish on. Buck did not want us to think too much on our own other than what's in his guidelines. He said that the thermocline is a breakline and the fish will relate to it. Don Dixon calls a thermocline an invisible breakline. With the new electronics, it can be seen and also the fish can be seen as how they are related to it. So you can throw the word invisible breakline out the window. Learning more of what fish do and what you and I must do to catch them is more knowledge that can be used down the road. Why would a person limit themselves to what can be learned. Mr. Perry's teaching are the guidelines which keep us on track, but his writings also say that there is a lot more to learn other than what has been written. John

One thing I learned this year is that when either the top or bottom of a breakline is near the same depth as the top of the thermocline, that is more often a money spot. I love learning these little tidbits.

Ken

I will add my two cents here- a little off topic but seasonally current.

Both large and smallmouth can still be caught shallow this time of year, over the last decade of fishing this time of year hard I have found that you can find them shallow if you have two factors present at the same time-
A shallow breakline (5-7’) that has lake basin type deep water very very very close and good water color.
I have four different lakes in my relatively immediate area that have this situation and they’ll all produce equally well.
Up north the water is down to 48 so that pattern is almost to the end of its course , once you hit 45 the start to slide out deeper, they’ll be in the same areas just a little deeper. From then on until ice out you have a really good shot at a trophy pike in those same areas.Either up real shallow or at the base breakline.

One other thing-
I know this is against some guys core values, lol, but please don’t count out live bait. I know it’s a four letter word but just like all the new electronics - don’t limit your learning by not checking all your speeds, it’s one of them. There will be days when you can’t buy a bite on artificials yet load the boat with live bait. Especially this time of year.
Fish how you want - I’m just saying…

That’s all it got,
Joe

Hi Joe. I agree with you on both of your comments. A good time to check shallow is on the days when the deep stuff seemed to come to a slow down. There is no doubt that live bait can be the best especially in the cold water. Finding a bait shop with live bait around me is not going to happen. The closest might be the bait shop supplying the musky guys with suckers 50 miles away. There is a guy in Wisconson named Eric Haatcha who shows how great live bait is on his video's. It is a great speed contol (the final one), and Bales just doesn't go there. John Yes I have put limitations on myself.

Great info guys for us northern natural lake guys. I was out yesterday on a bay on lake Minnetonka that was post turnover. I worked deep steep breaklines and stacked SP’s from 8’ to 25’ adjacent to a 31’ hole. I also cast a jig over a steep drop off from 23’ into 32’, adjacent to a 45’ hole. Finally, I trolled straight line passes along and acriss a steep point off of an 8’ hump. I was trolling and casting on the break dropping from 16 to 26 FOW. Other than heavy jigs, I don’t have anything in my boat to go any deeper. Needless to say, I don’t have any pics to share. I’ll be on Mille Lacs next weekend and then I’ll move out to the main lake basin on Tonka for the remainder of the year. At least, that’s the plan.

Ken

I said this earlier. I wait for the water temps to get to around 45 and then its all casting. I have many good (for around here), small lakes that I make my rounds in the late season and always look forward for this time period to last forever. It never does and sometimes its very short before its over. A warm up in the late season never seems to be a good thing. It slows down the good that comes once the water becomes stable. I look at it like a cold front. It gets colder and colder and the water is cooling and many things are changing for the fish. This is when we troll, just like after a massive cold front. And then it warms up and holds up this changing process and the catching no matter how you go about your fishing is worse. Now we have a different weather as it has gotten very cold all of a sudden with the next 4 days getting into the teens at night. Not sure what this will do but not sure it will be a good thing. I have been holding off going to a lake close to home to get some walleye for the freezer and the bass seemed to do well in surviving the weed spraying going on there. Its starting out in the 20's this morning and getting to 35 for the high. Tomorrow about the same but these next 4 days is in the teens and doubtful if we will make it out. Looks like a little warmer after that and maybe we will survive this arctic cold and it will get good and we can get lucky and fish into January with some good catches. The fun part is that the fish have to go through some major changes in the weather and its our part in fishing to figure out how they are effected and control our depths and speeds in order to make a catch. Maybe this is the reason I still do it. I have some pretty good spots in this lake. It is very clear so much of our fishing is 20-30 feet but yet there are some fish that stay in and around the few weeds that are left from 8 to about 16 feet. Hopefully the fish will be set up in their winter spots and we aren't too early for that. You don't know the answers unless you are out there, and I'm just dumb enough to need to know what they are. John

Well......... Just like I thought. Nothing is where they are supposed to be in bulk. Caught them from 5 feet deep to 25 ft. Blades, trds and 3 inch swimbaits on a 1/4 oz jig head. 42 bass...... nothing over 3lbs and 5 walleye. Had two walleye over 17 inches . Kept them and a giant perch about 13 inches for a nice supper for Deb and I. Will leave this lake sit for a week or so and hope they group up where they are supposed to be. Water temp down to 48 today. Down about 5 degrees from three days ago. Will leave this lake sit for another week or so. Headed to another lake tomorrow. LM only. John