The Spoonpluggers Forum

Structure Breaks Breaklines in order to be productive it must lead from deep water to the shallows.
Well apparently this is not the case.
Seems it does not have to go to the shallows.

Wouldn’t even begin to reply without some additional context from you...

What Brian said!

CHAMP wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:14 pm Structure Breaks Breaklines in order to be productive it must lead from deep water to the shallows.
Well apparently this is not the case.
Seems it does not have to go to the shallows.

This is a twist

Our guidelines say that in order for largemouth to use a hump, it must come to at least 8-10 feet on top. Sometimes after major cold fronts or in the winter, bass will use humps that are deeper than 8-10 feet . The only way to know the answer is to fish it and find out. If you fish enough, you will get that answer. In the late fall we used to catch a lot of big bass on a series of humps that were out in the middle of the lake that came up to 20 feet on top and they were all in a row connected by deeper saddles. I asked Mr. Perry about this and his answer is what I just said. There should be no argument about it. It's up to the fisherman to get those answers himself with time on the water. John

My take on this is Buck didn't want people straying from his program bc he knew most people would struggle. He knew some bass would use humps and some live their whole life shallow. He also knew if you focused more on structure that went all the way you’d be much more likely to find a school and a spot that would be productive more often

Here's are some questions: How does a bass know if a hump tops out at 10 feet, 20 feet or 30 feet, unless they swim to the top of the hump ? Are bass smart enough to remember that this hump I just swam up, topped out at 20 feet so I am not going to make this swim again because it topped out too deep ? What would cause a bass to use a 20 foot hump sometimes during the open water season and not other times during the open water season. What is the primary reason why a school of adult bass migrate from the deep towards the shallows ? The guidelines tell us that how far they migrate is determined by the weather and water conditions.

Bink,

I would tend to agree with your comments, except both Mr. Perry and Don Dickson use the word Must and Mr. Perry has told us that everything in the Green book and his 9 volume home study guide are facts that he has proven time and time again. I started to reading the Green Book in 1974 and the words MUST and facts made me a believer real quick. Recently via this website that there are some musts and facts that may be gray instead of black and white.

In the past 46 years, there have be hundreds of humps I have not fished because of the words must and facts.

I am grateful for the knowledge that Mr. Perry taught and made available for future generations.

This is really what I was speaking of.
The structure doesn't form in shallow water, really does not lead to shallows. But since it is all the fish have they have to use it.
So in my opinion if you have this situation some place in your lake with nothing better close by it has to be checked.
No bass or fish do not know what 10 fow is or any depth for that matter.
But by Bucks findings he knows that it is at that depth the fish start to back off .
They also do not know what there santurary depth is , they just know man this is comfortable .
But we should always strive to fish by the guidelines ,it is the only way that I know to do it .
But I also know that bass can be were you don;t think they will be.

Looks like several of our lakes out west here!
It is the number one reason I use wire line more than any other line.
It is also the reason I use Hopkins Jigging spoons and Drop shots more than any other lure here.

And now imagine having Mesquite brush and trees that have grown for many drought years when the Reservoir was only 30% full, and now is 80 to 100% full.
Roosevelt Lake in a nutshell. BIG Highlander. DEEP and CLEAR.
But is is STILL a Reservoir and our guidelines tell us that the channels are the "key" to finding the fish.

Buck made the statement in the Home Study course. """You and I know bass go DEEP under CLEAR water conditions. If we expect to catch them CONSISTANTLY, we must present our lure deep. The big problem for most fishermen is "where deep" and "how deep".""

He also says that these are where Live Bait can work better that artificial lures. But speeds still need to be checked out.

In the drawing above, what many overlook is that while the structure does not "form" in shallow water, rest assured that there is a path (that the fish know and see) that can and does go "all the way", if the fish so chose to, but most of the time, do not! It is just that you and I cant see it, even with all the new electronics available to us. How else are they getting to the shallows to spawn each year if it doesnt go all the way?

Champ, very good "food for thought" posts! These provide some of the best teaching and learning there is here.

A bass is never lost. If anything, it is the fisherman that is lost. This is their house!!! The main reason the bass need the ten feet and a path that leads to the shallows is for the spawn. There are no questions we have that cannot be answered by spending time on the water. The answers come by actually fishing a spot you have questioned. Thank goodness that the bass do move shallower (may) when they become active or we would all be in trouble, except a few. A few minutes of interpretation on where to place your lures on any spot and a few days of working it will get the answers you may have. Just go by what Mr. Perry says. If the top of a hump does not come within 8-10 feet, don't expect the bass to use it. White bass, striper, walleye, yes but not the bass. If you happen to catch a bass on a hump that tops out at 20 ft. then figure out why he is there. I will say it again. A bass is never lost. They also do not have the ability to think or reason. They do what they do because they have no choice, survival is built in. All of what Mr. Perry taught is to keep the fisherman from getting lost and in trouble. John

Garry B wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:35 pm Bink,

I would tend to agree with your comments, except both Mr. Perry and Don Dickson use the word Must and Mr. Perry has told us that everything in the Green book and his 9 volume home study guide are facts that he has proven time and time again. I started to reading the Green Book in 1974 and the words MUST and facts made me a believer real quick. Recently via this website that there are some musts and facts that may be gray instead of black and white.

In the past 46 years, there have be hundreds of humps I have not fished because of the words must and facts.

I am grateful for the knowledge that Mr. Perry taught and made available for future generations.

Gary
I agree that they used the words Must and Facts. And do believe they are must and facts geared toward MR Perry’s guidelines. but there’s plenty of fish caught in areas that bucks teachings would not have us focussing on(typically smaller stragglers). As a coach myself sometimes you have to over emphasis your points by making them “Must & facts” . I believe everything buck said was very true to his experience and system but to say a bass will never use a hump thats not 10 of shallower is Silly. Is that the best place to look? no but it not a guarantee you will never catch a fish there.

Years ago I took a student to a shallow flatlander by my house. After that day he looked at me and told me he had passed up many spots because they did not have 30-35 ft of water available to the fish. When I reminded him there are two things that were mentioned, the deepest water in the lake and the deepest water in the area being fished. Just another guideline not totally understood. Mr. Perry was never wrong in his findings or the way it was taught. Are there fish under piers, in the weeds, grass bass is what he called them, on the flats ect.......... of course. But......... in order for you and I to catch fish consistently, he needed to give us guidelines we could follow that would keep us out of trouble and would allow us to catch fish like never before. Most of the things that we may not understand are those things we may not have experienced enough to really get what was said. I am still blown away after all these years when I re- study and find something that Mr. Perry said that simply slaps me in the face. You realize that the reason it was not understood earlier is because I had not done enough to see what was in this section. Time on the water will take care of everything. John

Garry B wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:35 pm Bink,



In the past 46 years, there have be hundreds of humps I have not fished because of the words must and facts.

Also this only pertains to largemouth bass. All those humps you passed in the last 46 years held fish. Maybe not largemouth but SM bass, walleye, pike strippers etc would all use this spot.