The Spoonpluggers Forum

Last year was the first time I was able to keep a log of my activity and the important things to remember. Dates, water temps, fish caught , size and numbers, Lake name, and any thought that was important for that day on the water. I have already been asked to look up the dates of some of our good catches. If I had not taken the time to record these things, we just wouldn't know. I made some stupid lake choices. Right in the middle of some of my best catches, I switched lakes to a lesser chance of getting many bigger fish. Some lakes have numbers but not many big ones. Some have both and some just suck. I've tried this before but never stuck with it. Another for instance, I can look up when the crappies started to show up on my favorite crappie lake. We know that the weather is never the same but to have a general time line and more important, water temps, we can keep pretty goood track of things in all the different lakes. A deeper lake takes longer to warm than a small shallow lake, so we can make a move from the smaller lakes when it is happening and then move to a deeper lake down the road and take advantage of the same movements. Weather and water conditions control all fish movements but you and I can keep an eye of those things and come close to a prediction. One thing to keep watching in the early season is the water temps. Cooling water slows down fish movements. Warming water with consistent weather in cold water really makes them active and they may move shallow quickly. That can come to a hault with a front and a quick drop in air temps and we start over. One thing to watch is the night time temps. If the water is 42 degrees and you average the highs and lows of the day, if that average is less than the water temps, don't expect much to change. But........... if we get a warming trend and for three nights in a row, the night time temps allow the waters to warm, the days to come can be great days till the next front hits and again we start over. It really pays off to keep an eye of the weather and how it effects the water temperatures. We can go to any body of water in the early season and at least by watching the weather and knowing what the water temps are, we can have an idea of what the fish may be doing and what we might do to put the most fish in the boat. The fish can be quite active even in cold water if conditions of weather and water are stable and then again, the next front can put a real slow down to it. We adjust how we fish (depths and speeds) to compensate for that change. What fish do after ice out doesn't seem to change in their location, but more of what it takes to catch them in the different weather and water conditions. Sometimes you guess right and at times you have days that you wonder how little you know. Especially when the change in the weather and fish movements and activity cannot be figured out on a particular day. If keeping a log of the good and the bad helps understand the outcome, it's worth doing. John

Glad you did this John. Hope you do it again this year. I know you’re already off to a great start with the warm early January we had.
Question, I know on one of your shad lakes you had some astounding early spring catches. Numbers and size. Understanding every year can be different, can you tell us about what date that bite started going and also if you noted water temp when that was going. Thanks Brett

For years, the best pre spawn movements shallower than ten feet(only if weather is stable), always occur in water temps of 48 to 50 degrees. It just so happened to be 53 when it really happened for me this year. Yes it was a shad lake and the A rig was the deal. I hope to bring Duplex around to get some video when the timing is right this year. If the weather is not stable during that time period, it is just a few at a time. You can watch the weather once the water temps get close and pretty much know that its going to happen. And when it does, you best be ready to put them in the boat. No messing around. It usually takes 3 days of stable weather to get them up there. In three days, I had 52 by myself, 72 with a partner and 27 with my brother in law. All of the fish were from 2 1/2 lbs to 6lbs. Something I look forward to each year. Thanks for asking and this is one reason I am keeping track again this coming season. John

John,
How does water color effect this, if at all?
Clear, dark yellow, light yellow?
Or does it?

Steve, I don't think water color matters one bit. It's a pre spawn movement where they feed heavily before the spawn. When it happens, you can see the tails of the bluegill or shad in their throats. A good strong wind blowing where the shoreline is riled up is one of the things to look for. To me it is the best chance of the whole season to catch lots of adult fish out of one group. Brett was talking about a shad lake where the A rig comes into play but on bluegill, crappie, perch lakes, a rattletrap or a crankbait(something you move fast), is the deal. When they move right up on top of the shallow stuff, a rattletrap is great. If they are closer to the drop off, then a crankbait that runs a little deeper might be better. A heavier chatterbait can work. The lake Brett is talking about is my best lake for size and numbers. It is like all of our lakes used to be. The guide would be around the 50 degree surface temps and some good stable weather or you won't get the large groups to move up at one time. Timing is important and without the stable weather, you won't see the large groups. John

Interesting.....
My son Zach ( now deceased), and I hit what you are talking about on Roosevelt one time.
We started at a big cove entrance and were working our way along and were about half way back when he caught a 4 pounder on a Spinner Bait in about 2 feet of water, almost on the bank. I was running the TM and casting a DT16 bumping bottom on the breakline at 12 feet or so. He started catching a bass cast after cast, while i caught nothing. Well Mama didnt raise no dummy! I switched to a Rattletrap, moved the boat into a more shallow run and we must have caught over 80 bass that day and never left that cove! I thought it was just a shallow movement that lasted a long time!
I remember the temps were in the low 50's I believe.
Later that day the breakline was much better.
It was like it happened yesterday. Funny how you can remember details of a great trip like that. Ill never forget it, and I miss our time together real bad.
Thank you for writing down such great info.

John,
As you look back on the data from the year I’m sure it reminds you what tools it took to make the catch on certain days. Can you comment briefly on a couple tools that have possibly found the way to the deck of your boat the last year or two that weren’t there before? Are their tools that we should really think about adding to the toolbox but maybe we are too stubborn or don’t know about yet that you feel have made a big impact on your past season or two? Thanks. (P.S. John did not set me up for these questions although I do generally know his answers but when he puts them in writing I always learn a bit more.)
Brett

brett wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:59 pm John,
As you look back on the data from the year I’m sure it reminds you what tools it took to make the catch on certain days. Can you comment briefly on a couple tools that have possibly found the way to the deck of your boat the last year or two that weren’t there before? Are their tools that we should really think about adding to the toolbox but maybe we are too stubborn or don’t know about yet that you feel have made a big impact on your past season or two? Thanks. (P.S. John did not set me up for these questions although I do generally know his answers but when he puts them in writing I always learn a bit more.)
Brett

Brett, That's a great question. Thank-you for asking..look forward to JB's response.

The last 30 minutes, I was reading through the green book which is always within reach of my chair. It just so happens that what I was looking at has some answers to your thoughts. If you pay attention to his findings, you will understand that in order to come up with a conclusion, he did a lot of thinking and experimenting with depth and speed controls, both trolling and casting, and in a lot of conditions. The section I was looking at was tools but skipped over a lot to get to what he eventually said as a summation at the end. Yes there are tools (lures), that I have added over the last few years that have increased my success but that success could not be had without knowledge of where , when , what , why and how. Read the summation on page 103 and 104. This seems to be a good explanation of my mind set right now. John

John that is some mighty fine stuff that Buck put on paper. He definitely did think it through and what he says is undeniable and always will be. He really had quite a way with words sometimes and when you really read certain things in the book, really read them, you realize how much of his heart he put into writing it. Thanks for that answer.

So last question on your season and I’ll give you a break. Two parts. What is the most important thing you learned last year? And what is the most important thing you think Spoonpluggers need to do to get better?

Great questions and excelllent answers for sure.
We need more of these type discussions.
Im not John, but this question stikes a nerve for me.

""what is the most important thing you think Spoonpluggers need to do to get better?""
I would be willing to bet that John will say, and I KNOW Buck, Don Dickson, and Tommy Ferencek always answered this question, because I asked it to them was:
Spend more time on the water.
Tommy and I had a long discussion about this very question. I was having trouble in the beginning "putting it all together", so to speak, and he told me that I had the Head knowledge, I just needed more time to experience what was taught to me.
He was so right! Time on the water.
Buck said the same thing over and over. An over view answer of his is: "The more I learn, the more I see there is to learn." Sums it up pretty well.
Like Brett siad above, Buck had a way with words!!!
Cant wait to hear Johns answer!

Brett, For me, getting on the water a lot allowed me to stay in tune with basic fish movements and how that is effected by weather and water conditions. The ultimate for me is to be observant , watch what is happening around you and sometimes be able to see what changed in the weather that made the fish become active that day. Of course you have to catch the fish to know . To get better? You can always get better. Spend as much time on the water as you can. Become a good troller and caster. Have the tools that allow you to do both. Fish all seasons, fish as many types of waters as you can and for all species. Keep an open mind and do not limit yourself to any one presentation. Always think in terms of how can I control my depths and speeds. Become a good mapper. Know what your structures look like. Put them on paper if you need to and include depths, line sights, breaklines, shapes , size and what ever you need to be able to see it in your mind. If you cannot map or do not know what your structure look like, you cannot troll it or cast it correctly and you stand no chance to get better.
Buck always said that the mechanical part of spoonplugging is the easiest , yet it seems like most find this the hardest. If you map a structure before you fish it, the mechanical part of presenting lures becomes easy. Do your homework first , then the rest will fall into place. Throw those markers, get those shoreline sightings. Know where you are. Make every trolling pass and every cast for a reason. If you do some of these things and have a little self control, your fishing will improve for sure. Buck was right about everything and it has not changed. John
Steve, I heard your post go through as I was writing this but did not read it till just now. Interesting isn't it.
Forgot a couple of things. The actual catching of the fish is the bottom line and a lot of the satisfaction but also finding out what depths and speeds it takes to catch the fish is some of the fun.

Brett Thanks again for asking the question that started this thread.
JB and Steve thanks for your thoughts. Real pearls of insights
Last year my 1st full season I spent an inordinate amount of time learning how to troll. and I did make some good catches. This year I'm going to spend much more time casting and really trying to open this box up on "working a structure' and checking it out with different speed controls. I made mention of this to JB once about feeling like a door to door sales man, knocking on the door but not waiting for the door to be opened by a prospective buyer. That's going to change for sure
Think spring it will be here before we know it!

Hal

Great stuff gentleman. Time on the water is the most important for sure. I remember when I first read the green book, went to a spoonpluggers meeting, put all my old fishing gear away and started over with a trolling rod, spoonplug, and a casting rod with some blades and jigs. I was so excited for the start of every new day on the water but there’s no denying that is was really difficult for quite awhile. Long long days on the water with poor results. Every once in awhile something great would happen but I knew it wasn’t coming together completely. I remember I came across Jerry Borst trolling the same lake as me on one of those very long days. He stopped to say hello to a fellow spoonplugger and when he drove off he said “Whatever you do just stick with it!” At that moment it’s what I needed to hear to keep waking up and getting on the water.
On another note maybe I’ll start a new thread where whoever is interested can put down their goals for 2020: days on the water as the only goal or you can add to it if you want. It’s a great way to keep yourself in the game.

Last season when I started keeping some records, there were no goals. Just to keep track of the more important things so I could look back and see when a catch was made, how many , how big and what it took to catch them. Of course, weather and water. Numbers of fish caught and size also. I have already had a couple guys call me and ask when we make the great catches on one of my favorite lakes. It was easy to just look it up. One thing I did that I should not have was to leave a hot lake alone and go to a new one. I love variety but more can be learned by keeping track for several days on the same lake of what the fish do on a weather change, good or bad.
As I go through my tools (tackle) , anyone would look at all of it and say that this guy is anal about how much is involved. To some it would be overwhelming . But........... there are some tools that simply work better seasonally in some waters than our standard issue. Some of this has been learn from someone else and some is just from our own experiences. We would never make a trip to St. Clair without #9 shad raps and a hand full of suspending jerk bait, hair jigs (Make my own), blade baits, tubes, and the jerk baits, shad raps will be pretty much put away till we go back. Forgot about swim baits. Brett asked a question about the last couple of years, have we found any lures that we have included in our tools. I didn't answer what he really wanted to hear but he already knew what I would say. The question was more for other to hear. The answer is yes. The swimbait, the trd on a light jig head with light line, and the A rig but only on a few lakes. The addition of these three tools in the colder waters(early and late season) has opened our eyes to new depth and speed controls, mostly speed. The small swim bait will be my #1 tool just as soon as the ice comes off. Never did I think that another lure would take the place or be better at times than the blade bait. The blade, trd and a swimbait are the three lures that we depend on early and late. Each one takes a different rod to present the lures correctly. Each one requires a different line test. The key is to know where to spend your time checking out each tool (depth and speeds) in order to find out what works. As an example, when the ice comes off of my lake, my time is spent on about 4 spots. 3 of those spots are connected on one shoreline. This is always where we find the fish early so why change. Points or inside turns is where it always happens. Patience for the fish to become active is necessary as always but we never stop checking those spots with the same lures till we either get them or we don't. So......... A few lures were mentioned but the reason they are mentioned is they offer good speed control (slower), in the early season and their mention is for that reason alone. Any time you buy a lure, you should always ask yourself how it can be used for depth and speed control. Terry O'malley told me in the spring, he would always use a jerkbait near the back of the coves in the early season . We both agree that a lot of our spoonpluggers miss out on a lot of catching and learning before the trolling of a spoonplug really starts to shine. It's about knowing what fish do and doing what it takes to catch them. The whole idea of becoming a great troller is to set yourself up for having enough general fishing knowledge so that you can catch the fish any time you want to. It is so much more satisfying to catch fish on purpose. John