The Spoonpluggers Forum

This is the new FINAL SOLUTION to whether there are any fish down there or not. I have spent a few months with a guy who has one of these gadgets and I have come away seeing a lot of fishing facts shattered.
I have seen "perfect bars" and not a fish in sight...and then out in the middle of some dumb flat, there would be hundreds...all just mingling around some silly looking little group of rocks.
You may see them down there, and you may mark that area, and you may bring every lure in the boat through the middle of them but many times they will still not strike or bite. Just because they are there doesnt mean you will catch them.
If fishing is tough, you can have the time of your life looking at whats down there on that screen. This gives you many opportunities for fishing straight down under the boat too with a live minnow or a spoon.
This winter's research coming up will answer a lot more mysteries. I am already totally sold on the effectiveness of this tool, but I still have to convince the financial officer that this is a good toy for me to buy.
I know how most of you feel about new advancements but if you're not using this device because "we never did that before" and it isnt in the book, you might want to think about opening up a little and checking this business out.
Are any of you using one of these things now?
Regards,
Douglas

Your post on the new toy was interesting. I have a couple questions that perhaps you can help with. I don't have one but I've seen them in the catalogs.
1. You mentioned fishing under the boat. Did the owner mention what success rate he's had over a period of time? I'm assuming that when you mark them over a dumb flat (sanctuary) they are in a non chasing mood.
I have caught fish while fishing a flat but the s/p told me there was a change in bottom (hard from soft).

2. I have a graph--Humminbird 727. Yes, I've found it fascinating to mark suspended fish where I never expected them. The best bar in the lake I fish is productive for walleye and smallies, still, most of the time my graph shows no fish. No migration I assume.
What is the advantage of the underwater camera over the graph?

3. How clear is the picture on the screen? Especially in water 30 ft and deeper? Can you distinguish between a hard and soft bottom?

4. What fishing facts were shattered by you experiences?

Thanks in advance for any help on these questions...............pat

3.

After you finish reading this and maybe trash me, go to website: www. aqua-vu.com and look at some of the videos. And this isnt even the BEST camera.
I will try to answer your questions one at a time.
The success rate will blow a spoonplugger, who is mapping and trolling in the conventional way, right off the charts. Less TIME spent in locating fish! Use it in conjunction with the depthfinder and available maps but you will STILL have to get the correct speed. However, you KNOW you are on fish when you're doing all that work. You may have to even back off "the spot" and run a walking lure through there. I dont worry about "non-chasing or inactive fish" anymore. If the located school is inactive, no big deal there, I will just go find another school that IS active. You better bet on this too, there will be active and non-active schools all over the place, but you will never know it because you're "doing it like you've always done it"

2. The advantage should be obvious. With the graph you get marks and symbols....with the camera, you get fish. You also know for sure what species is down there.

3. In clear water it is MURDER! Have seen good clear pictures at 40 feet but, surprise!!!! You probably won't even have to fool around down there. There are PLENTY of schools less than 25 feet deep in clear water, but you dont know they are there because you are out on a breakline staying hung up with wire line.

4. I am not the least bit concerned with hard bottom, soft bottom, pretty bottom, lazy bottom, big bottom, fat bottom, weed bottom, brush bottom. etc etc etc. If there are any fish down there I am going to see them and then its a matter of selecting and using the proper tools (lures or bait) to force a strike or get a bite. I see now why these things are being banned in so many fishing tournaments.

5. Its still a speed control thing even when you find them. This and the fact that they cost so much will keep them away from "fish hogs" (hopefully) because I can see how a group of educated fishermen armed with these things could really damage a fishery. Especially if it was on the brink of disaster anyway.

6. Facts? well lets look at it this way. What was fact yesterday may not be totally "fact" today. The world is continually evolving in some way, water conditions change, too many variables, etc etc. To keep one's mind closed to this is to become rigid and dogmatic, thus depriving a bright mind from expanding. Do you remember when the ubiquitous "they" proclaimed that "the internet is just a fad, wont last 2 years" or "cell phones will never be popular, they cost too much, I will just stop and use a payphone" (try to find a payphone booth today)...or the best of all......"ahhhhh these bass clubs wont be around in a few years, its just a passing thing. Anyway, I'm a demmiecrat and my grandpappy would say we gotta stop these things" etc etc etc.

7. We're in a new scientific age....it pays to check these things out

Stay happy,
Douglas

Thanks for the the extensive answers to my questions. Your prior experience in fishing lends credence to your opinions. Admitedly, if I read what you believe in a ad or fishing magazine article I'd be very skeptical. Your opinion makes me want to check it out for myself.
If you are still in a helpful mood I have a couple other questions:

1. I watched the videos on Aqua-vue.com and the clarity was surprising.
Would you agree that the videos are good representations?

2. The camera is on a wire so how do you locate fish? Moving slowly or pull the camera up and move on to what might be a productive area? Any speed on the boat would cause the camera to drag at an angle.

3. What features of the system did you not like?

4. What model are you experienced with? The "Scout XL" has a 7 inch monitor and goes for about 270 bucks. Any opinions?

Again, thanks in advance for your help.

P.S. If I ever decided to invests in a new "toy" I'd add on the cost of taking my CFO to dinner first.

Guess I'm the new kid on the block but I thought I might jump in with both feet. Read with much interest, the posts about using the camera. Kinda made me think that I might like to try it, even if it was just to keep the grandkids busy in the boat.

Then I thought, maybe I could use it to identify the fish showing on my SONAR. On the other hand, the only species of fish in the reservoir I use are Walleye, Perch and Channel Cat. Not too difficult to figure out what's what on the SONAR.

After receiving and studying ( in the process of my second read) Mr. Perry's study guide, I thought how great it would be to use the camera to check out visually the located structure and see if any "Breaks" were prominant. Now I'm really interested.

The final issue brought out by the study materials was that water color breaklines exist. Some you can see and( the most important ones ) you can't see. I thought; how about putting a 3 foot rod, with one of those visabilty discs on the end of it that the water resource guys use to determine clarity, out in front of the camera, lower it to different depths and see if there is a color breakline down there.

Anyway, I got the camera. Haven't had a chance to use it yet but for us reservoir fisherman, there's lots of color change to check out.

Glad to be involved learning about "Spoonplugging". I feel I finally have a organized, logical way to go about fishing, rather then just trusting to dumb luck.

Ron

Ron:
I'm still in the process of wondering whether to get a camera or not.
Keep this in mind: It is just another toy and I'm doubtful if it will put any more fish in the boat. But, toys can be fun.
Douglas has been enthusiastic on the camera but I have to wonder if his success is primarily with fish other than walleye, pike, musky and smallies. I can envision finding a school of perch, crappie etc. putting a bait down and catching them. I could be wrong, just my guess.
Perhaps the clarity on the screen would give you a hint if there is a color breakline or not.
Regards...........pat

Douglas had his fishing knowledge way before the camera was available. It would be a mistake for a greenhorn to be running around looking for fish before he had any spoonplugging knowledge. He would be doing the wrong things at the wrong time and in the wrong manner. He will be lost before he ever got started. John

John:
I must not have been clear enough in my last post. Let me try again.
I agree totally that it would be a mistake for a greenhorn to run around looking for fish before the acquired knowledge. I can cite my experience.
When the paper graphs first came out I bought one.
I found it fascinating to mark fish at all depths and in all places. Of course I made a typical mistake: I tried to catch the fish I was marking. When it finally dawned on me that I was wasting valuable fishing time and not catching fish I sold the thing.
I tried to point that point out by saying bluntly:"It won't put any more fish in the boat".Everyone is aware of Douglas's fishing knowledge. That's why I attached some importance to his enthusiasm for the camera. Had to be something here for him to feel that way. He certainly has aroused my curiosity.
I'm still not clear on whether he has success with all species. He seems to enjoy catching the panfish type these days and that's perfectly okay. I just wonder if he has success with the so called "game fish" with the camera. John, do you have any opinion on this?
Douglas:
If you read this post please clarify the above question.
Also, can you give any advice on camera models. I notice there is one model that sells for about 280 bucks. Is this the one you were using?
And finally, I'm moving toward the thought of actually getting one. I figure I can't lose cause I'm a believe that fishing should be fun and this "toy" may fit that category. I'll let you know how it comes out....pat

Hi Pat, I was thinking about some of the other fellows who are new, not your posts at all. (Laughing) I dont have an opinion on the camera one way or the other. I think scuba diving would be more fun if a person really wants to be at the fish's level and look them eye to eye. A stick of dynamite attached to a big rock would give some quick answers also. Take Care John

Hey, Douglas, Have you found a way to hook up that aquaview lens up to your spoonplugs. I think it would be very neat to see those bass attack the spoonplug. Dont forget to connect to a video camera because I want to SEE some underwater action. Wait a minute,, bass usually hit the bait head on or from the side. Youll have to work on the angles. Oh well, we can always WATCH the catfish closing in. Santee schooled me on that deal. Rear strike, every time! Sometimes they gobble up the entire plug. Those arkansas blues do some tuggin' as well as the flatheads and bigger channels, however most of the time you should figure on a bluecat.

Good Fishin
Whopper Stopper

I have no more comments on the use of the camera. I lit everyone up in here the last time.
I wonder if there are still people who think "those guys didnt walk on the moon, it was a guvment trick, if God wanted us to walk on the moon he woulda put us there".
Those who refuse to face the future and new innovations, do so at their own peril. Just look at how few spoonpluggers there are left..that speaks volumes.
Regards,
Douglas

I'll just add a postscript to this subject.

Out of curiosity, I borrowed a camera and took it out a few days ago. Moving from the weed line down to 40' in several places I didn't see a single fish. What I did see, watching both the screen and the sonar, was confirmation of what Buck said, i.e. you don't see everything on the sonar. The bottom of the lake looked like a moonscape; small craters, swales, and ridges all over the place. Some of the ridges were higher than the camera, but none were evident on the sonar. Those craters, swales, and ridges could form a migration route from the deep to the shallows, but you'd never know they were there by just looking at the sonar.

It was an interesting experience, but I don't believe a camera will help catch fish. Its value might be(for the sake of of curiosity) to look at a known contact point, etc.

For the record, I use a Lowrance LMS 480.

You said it yourself with "you dont see everything on the sonar". Thats why you use a CAMERA to save time in your mapping. duhh....
The camera is the best AID that has come along since the depth sounder became commonplace in fresh water. Treat it as such and it will put MORE fish in the boat than you ever dreamed of. (but, helloooooooo..you still have to put something with hooks on it in those areas where the camera sees fish) duhh..again.
On the other hand, it would be better for you if you ignored everything I have ever written and do your fishing the way you think would be best for you. I am a nobody...an absolute nobody and should be dismissed as just a silly old man who doesn't know anything about anything.
Thank you so much for this enlightening posting. I may just get so excited over it I will go and make love again. (prostate sez, "oh nooo you won't, I am in charge of you, old dog")
So, fellow fisherman, you fish your way and I will fish mine. My way will "never go over there anyhow, because we just dont fish that way" etc etc etc.
Byeeeeeeee and kissy
Ohhhh yes. Before anyone says it...."YOU ARE RIGHT, I am a nasty tempered sonovabitch and have no patience left. All out of stock on it"

Now Douglas, don’t get your knickers in a twist. I wasn't challenging what you said about a camera being an aid.

I think your key sentence is "...you still have to put something with hooks on it in those areas where the camera sees fish". As you must have experienced, moving around with the camera is very slow because it trails out away from the direction you are moving if you move too fast. Don't you think it's better to troll with a spoonplug and use the camera to peek around when you find a potential spot?

Also, I'm interested in how you use the camera to save time in mapping. Would you be good enough to elaborate on that please? Thanks.

Oh, by the way, and don't confuse being "a nasty tempered sonovabitch" with being passionate about what you believe in.