The Spoonpluggers Forum

I was reading the green book again, for the 100th time or so, and was reading about straining the shallows and it got me thinking.. In some lakes with gradual drop offs, this could cover a real large area. I was curious how other spoonpluggers go about doing this - so, How do you other spoonpluggers go about straining the shallows?

thanks, Kraig.

Hi Kraig...

I troll the shallows pretty much like the book tells us too. (contour troll). Buck says to fish the shallows from the surface down to 8-10 feet (meaning you can run free in the shallows) I don't run free that much. I think the question often asked is how long to spend in the shallows. As we get older it seems we fish less and less in the shallows. I'm guilty of it. Fishing the shallows will show us where to spend time deeper and often under bad conditions straggler fishing the shallows can be the only way to make a catch. I think I'll be spending some more time in shallows this weekend...

When I was reading that part of the book, It hit me that Mr. Perry mention straining the shallows several times - and said to keep going back to straining the shallows. I'm thinking that if someone says something repeatedly, they must be saying it's important... It also finally sunk in that when he's talking about shallows, he's talking from the surface to 10 feet, not just the bottom. There are all kinds of ways of working that - but I've never really done anything worth shouting about in that area, so figured there may be some better approaches that others are using. hence the question.

Thanks for the reply..
- Kraig.

Kraig,

After you strain the shallows and you are confident the fish are not there, go deeper. After you have gone as deep as you can go and no fish, start back over.
You may have missed them or they have not moved shallow yet. Getting the first fish will tell you what may be going on. A adult fish shallow, the movement is on, a small fish on a deep breakline, things maybe starting or they are as shallow as there coming at that time.

Buck mentions going back to the shallows to check all depths, you don't want to miss them shallow!

I guess the crux of my question is that straining the shallows can be a daunting task, especially to the point that you do it until you are sure they aren't there - In most lakes the shallows make up a majority of the lake, and you aren't just covering the bottom - you need to cover all the depths. so what methods and techniques do others use when checking this area before moving deep?

Thanks, Kraig.

Kraig,

I love your question. In my first couple years I had this question in my head constantly, along with speed. I kind of laugh now thinking about starting out around 3mph at a beginning depth, then straining down to 20+ at that speed and starting over at 4/5mph then starting over at 2mph. Oh man.

I would work the first breakline for an hour or so, then move a couple ft down for another hour, etc. etc. People would say that the key is depth and speed, so I just kept struggling with that in a LITERAL sense. What I gradually learned is not to take it literally at all, and rather to be much more fluid with depth and speed in my fishing.

Then gradually, with time spent on the water, our interpretation of weather and water conditions help us in our quest to tighten things into more focused depths and speeds. Finally, when we reach a point of focus and confidence in our presentation we will know on that day it will be the fish that eventually tell us all the answers and so our straining of the depths is like riding a bike. We are doing it well but not thinking much about it. It is why having the BASICS completely burned into our brains is so important, because without them we never reach the pinnacle of focus and confidence that we need to make the big catches.

I understand this all gets to more than what you asked but I think the best way to answer the question is in a broader scope. And I feel like talking. My personal belief (and I never met Buck but I think a lot about why he wrote it all out in the way he did) is that he knew if he emphasized the BASICS over and over and reminded us to check and recheck the shallows that the fisherman who struggled or was new to Spoonplugging would never be TOO lost if the basics were solid in his mind. The writings had to be laid out for BOTH the new Spoonplugger and the experienced Spoonplugger and so the reason for so much focus on the BASICS and not forgetting where it all begins - the shallows.

So, in direct answer to your question...I first review each basin of a lake by starting deep and running my boat directly into shore. I turn around and run back to the deep and sometimes do this a couple times. I then build in my head the depths I will check from shallow to deep. I will then find a couple key structures and attack them at the key depths until I find the fish and only occasionally will I work my way back up after straining down and only if I haven't found the fish by then. If I go back shallow it will be to only 1-2 key breaklines in the deeper section of the shallows (6-10ft). There are those that have made really big catches shallower after missing them earlier so I could be missing something but that's me. The thing about the shallows is if they are there you will know pretty quick. So if I start the day in 2-4ft I will pretty quickly move to 4-6ft and 8-10ft (as an example) because if the fish are shallow they are also active so we will KNOW.

You mention it being a daunting task because the shallows are such a big part of the lake - but this is not the case if you've identified a couple structure situations to focus your time on.

Part of your question is, I think, say for example at 8ft, do I check the 1-2ft depth, 2-4ft, 4-6ft, then 6-8ft for suspended fish? The answer is only in two main cases - smallmouth and/or a weed situation - there are others times probably but let's keep things kind of simple for now and we can learn other examples through experience. No weeds: In the case of no weeds I don't worry about all these depths, just the bottom and off the bottom a couple feet to check if they want it free running. With the weeds: I don't consider it a suspended situation because I think of the top of the weedline, the bottom of the weedline, and any changes in between as breaklines and they have to be worked just like the bottom. Also if I find a tall weedline that ends in a steep wall, I also add in the half way point between the top and bottom as a depth to check.

To sum up, key shallow breaklines (to me): bottom breaklines (usually 1-2 of these in the shallows on most lakes around me) and weed breaklines. Weed breaklines will be (1) the inside; (2) over the top where something changes - usually the where the tops of the tallest weeds will drop down slightly with a key bottom breakline; (3) hard to soft bottom transition, if any; (4) the very outside bottom edge of the weeds; (5) sometimes I also find where the weedline either changes in thickness or type, and this of course is important too.

My goal is to keep it fluid and not think too literally. I focus on shallows near structure and work them efficiently, hoping the fish will tell me quickly if they are there, and I keep going. I come back if I don't find them deeper but I will take less time checking the shallow breaklines and more time on the key breaklines deeper under most weather/water conditions. The best thing about the shallows, to me, is that they offer insight into what is deeper and why fish relate a certain way deeper on a structure.

Brett

Another thing to consider when straining the shallows (and this is in the book..)

Start as shallow as your comfortable with. Go some distance, then change to the next lure. Keep going but just do the next section at the next depth. Work around until you've gone as deep as you can or you find a structure that you need to work. You have to keep checking the shallows because if the fish were deep when you were working shallow, you might miss them. The reverse is the same.

Another thing you should do is when you find fish in a spot and they stop biting, continue to another area. However, go back and recheck the same spot. I have several spot on a river I fish. If I'm in the area I always do the pass that produces a couple of times. Then I go work an area I'm not so sure about. Every so often I break out of that area and go back and make 1 pass on the spot. Even if I have to go to the restroom or just changing spots I do at least one pass. It may take all day but you could end up with 8 Walleyes between 5 and 9 pounds....

Kraig,
You got some great advice above.
One of the guidelines Buck always taught was to learn how to troll the shallows BEFORE trolling the deep.
He taught to run the 500, 400, and 250 series lures. In order to do that, you had to keep them bumping the bottom in order to keep them "in Position". So a 500 must be bumping the bottom to know that you are in 2 to 4 feet of water. A 400 in 4-6, and a 250 in 6 to 9. Depending on line lengths.
This is what he was talking about when he said you and I have to "strain" the shallows.

This all works great if you dont have any weeds and thick brush to deal with. When they are present then you and I have to adjust like Brett said above.

On a lake you know nothing about and want to find out what is going on, then we start in the 2-4 foot range and leave the boat ramp and head "that-a-way". We run this size for a period keeping it bumping so that we know it is in the 2-4 foot zone. All the time checking our speeds, sometimes faster, and slower. After a 1/4 to 1/2 mile of so, we change lures to the next size, bumping bottom, so we know we are in the 4-6 foot zone. and son and so forth with the 250.
If we catch a fish, we note the area, and must give it another pass or two. If no more are caught, we move on up or down the lake checking our speeds out as we go.

If more than one fish is caught, then we need to find out the "why" that fish was there. Now we do like Brett talked about and take a closer look using our depth finder to see the size and shape of this area.This has now become "fishing water".
We now go to work on this feature in earnest, finding the deepest water, looking for breaklines, throwing markers on any direction change in them, and then making our straight line passes with the 200,100,700, and 800 to as deep as we can go.

After a while this will become "second nature" to you. At first it will seem like alot of trouble, but it will become very quick and easy to do, the more you do it.
With time on the water, and more experience, you will be able to look at a map, and actually pick out alot of your " potential" "fishing water" before getting on the lake.
Then troll your way to them and "shoot the works" as Buck used to say, in your presentation of lures on those "fishing water" spots.
This is how you learn, this is how you get better and better.

Hope this helps you a little.
Steve

Thanks for the in-depth and thoughtful replies. The lake I am on is a 100 acre lake divided into 3 basins in northern Indiana. max depth is 33 feet. good color, manageable weeds to maybe 7 foot. pretty bland really - mostly gradual dropoffs to the deeper area. The structure is not obvious - just small subtle turms you'll notice while trolling. I've been working on trolling the deeper waters to try and find structure, but since they are so subtle, I was thinking that moving shallower might be worth trying - if I manage to pick up multiple fish in an area I can work deeper and try to figure out where they are coming from.. kind of the reverse of what the book says, but It still means I'm learning more about the lake...

Thanks again, Kraig.

Depending on the time of year the plan should be to start at the base of the weedline then work out. While you and I can't see the most subtle changes the fish do.

A number of very good lakes I fish are little more than what you describe but don't have the depth yours does. If there isn't what you consider as a breakline the only thing you can do is follow a depth around. And yes you are exactly right, sometimes all you get is a turn in the depth. Remember though don't try to keep a depth (say 10') on your depth sounder the only thing you see. Otherwise you could end up stuck on a flat. If you intend to 'FISH' 10' you should drive the boat so the depth sounder goes from say 8-12 feet. Just kind of undulate like a snake between the depths. Use the speed of the change in depth to gauge how aggressive you drive the boat.

If the change is gradual, so should your turns be. Also anticipate the turn. You are fish 10'. You're using a range from 8-12' (the range will be greater or lessor depending on skill level and steepness of the bottom). As the boat passes 11' gradually start turning the boat shallower. As the boat passes 9' start turning deeper.

Two important things.
1. If the bottom is really soft, then make sure your line lengths are so you barely touch at the depth to want. You may only SEE a difference in the speed of the tip vibrating of the rod (not feel it). If you pull the rod forward the lure should be pulled off the bottom thus vibrating normally. I have to admit this is really challenging and often kicks my ass. But eventually we'll get it.

2. Pay attention and keep track of where the deep water is. We maneuver the boats quite a bit. keeping oriented throughout our proceedures is extremely important. If you are ever asked while driving where the deep water is and you don't know - you're lost. Stop what your doing, reel in, and drive around a bit to get your bearings. You don't what to just wander around hoping you find something.

Going Fishing, Morning.
Fran

Kraig,
Re-read what Buck says in the "green" book on page 107, beginning with the paragraph "Let's go back to that remark I made...." You will find the answer to your question on the next page, fourth paragraph down beginning "When presenting lures in the shallows...." Be sure you read to the end of the section; especially the bold-face at the end of the last paragraph. Jon Bales' practice, beginning with the smallest lures, starting with one color for a while, then two colors then three colors; all the while varying speed makes a lot of sense. Control of depth and speed.

In the home study series Volume 5, Presentation of Lures beginning at the bottom of page 64 Buck takes you on an imaginary trip to a new lake and ties everything together, i.e. "trolling water", "fishing water", leaving right from the boat ramp trolling the trolling water beginning with the shallows, and fishing the fishing water. Another example of an imaginary trip to a new lake begins at the top of page 93 of Volume 7, Part 1, Mapping and Interpretation. If you don't have the home study series, Buck Perry's Guidelines For Fishing Success, do yourself a favor and get a set. It expands on the "green" book, and believe me you won't regret it.

" I was thinking that moving shallower might be worth trying - if I manage to pick up multiple fish in an area I can work deeper and try to figure out where they are coming from.. kind of the reverse of what the book says,"

No........this is exactly what the "book" says! It is exactly what Buck says.
It is how you and I start each trip.....in the shallows. Fish caught there are "indicators" that you could have bigger fish deeper.
Beg, borrow or buy John's video. In it he shows you how to do what you are wanting to do.

Kraig, do what Steve suggests: get John's videos; at least the first one. It's like being in the boat fishing with John!

I have the first two videos - perhaps I need to revisit them too now that I have some fresh questions in my mind.

One time in my life, John Zaborney and myself got to fish along side of Mr. Perry and Jeri down in Florida. Every single lake John and I would blast to what was known to be the best fishing area and Mr. Perry would tell us each and every day to go ahead and he would meet us there. What would he do? Each and every time he would put on the 500 and head towards the fishing water. He would fight the thick hydrilla weeds on some of the lakes but would still make an attempt to fish the shallows with the first three sizes on the way to the fishing waters. Eventually he would show up and we would fish the same waters but he always did what he preached. John