The Spoonpluggers Forum

How do you deal with the deepest water in the area when you have deep, deep lakes? Let’s say you have 160 ft. on one side of a bar and 140 ft. on the other side of the bar. I know the contact point will be the longest, narrowest, sharpest, deepest break to the deepest water in the area. I know if all the above doesn't come together, you would reverse their order as to importance. The deepest water in the area, (Assuming it leads all the way from the shallows to the deep), would be the most important. Next the deepest break, then the sharpest, etc. etc. (Questions Below)

If a fish will never reach these depths, how would they know what they are? Would the deepest water in the area still apply or would you fish the one with the better structure: Deeper drop off, steepest break, etc.

I know you want to find the contact point as soon as possible, but how does one answer the above questions?

What if your lake has a thermocline? I know if it does, the thermocline is the bottom of the lake for Bass and I believe all other fish. They won't try and penetrate it. If this is the case, then how do you define deepest water in the area?

Learn to troll, cast and interpret the shallows first before you start worrying about 140'Fow

Thanks Bink. Good advice. The problem is the primary lake that I fish, Diamond Valley Lake, drops off to 140ft. or more. If your 100 yards or so away from shore, your over 100ft. I think what I'm trying to determine is how do you determine the contact point in water this deep? What is the deepest water in the area according to the fish. Example: If a fish won't go below 100 ft. let's say, (This is just a guess, example number) is that the bottom to them. And how would anyone ever know what that is in water that deep. You could never determine the deepest water because were not fish. My best guess and this is a just a guess, is that you would go by the deepest water in the area and look for the contact point on that side of the structure.
I'm not talking about fishing this deep. I just want to know if the rules still apply to the deepest water in the area if it gets down to 180ft and it does lead all the way from the shallows to this deep of water?

Kevin,
Chase Klinesteker once told me this:
It is no different than having a 30 foot hole on one side of a bar and a 32 foot hole on the other side.
You could have fish using both holes, but your biggest fish will come from the 32 foot hole.

So the best advice is to "check them both out".

Thanks for clearing that up for me Steve. So no matter how deep the water is, the deepest water in the area will be the side of the structure to look for the biggest fish and the contact point. But there may fish on the other side as well, so I should fish both sides to see if they're there as well. There's such a huge difference between Big Bear, where the deepst water might be 40ft. around the lake, lets say, and Diamond Valley Lake that drops down to 200ft. in places.

Kevin McClure wrote:What is the deepest water in the area according to the fish.

Diamond Valley -- Clear Western Lake... if you ever wanted to improve your fishing skills by pure challenge, these types of lakes are the way to go! I have found that the "bottom of the lake" or the "deepest water in the area" is really determined by light penetration. The "bottom depth" is dependent on the water color (stain/light filter), the amount of cloud cover on that day (light filter) and time of day (solar light intensity). Generally in the West, we have clear water and bright sunshine, so you have good light penetration in the water in the daytime. The more light penetration, the deeper the life in the lake and vice versa.

The reason that light penetration in water is important is because the entire fresh water lake ecology depends on light. The bottom of the food chain tries to hide below in the Indigo/Violet wavelength range, which is really where the life in the lake starts to take hold during the daytime. Basically, I consider this to be the deepest water in the area, no matter what the bottom sonar depth shows. How do you determine this depth? The only way I have found is with electronics... starting with a .001 lux camera and now, I can generally interpret that depth with 450hz sonar.

[quote="Bryan-AZHow do you determine this depth? The only way I have found is with electronics... starting with a .001 lux camera and now, I can generally interpret that depth with 450hz sonar.[/quote]

Interesting observation. Care to elaborate on the technique using sonar?

It is similar to seeing a thermocline on the broadband sonar. You turn off all of clutter filters and crank up the sensitivity/contrast. You are getting echoes back from zooplankton, their predators, and their predators' predators.

I've seen it as low as 140 feet in my home lake, but I don't really go around trying to find the deepest life in the lake, since it is way too hard for me to fish. I generally head up creeks arms where the water is a bit more stained. I usually don't fish any deeper than 65 feet...just no confidence, so it better be a big wad of fish on the sonar if I'm going to take time to fish 80-90 feet.

Most of us haven't had a chance to fish reservoirs like this highland you describe which is why some of the answers you got we're less than helpful...

If we forget water color for now, most of us really wouldn't care much about how much water below 60' there is. Other than what side of the bar is deepest. Then as you said - shape, steepness, bottom make up. Generally in MOST natural lakes you can point your finger in water and say "There they are!". Problem becomes when you get into reservoirs, which is why Mr. Perry spent so much time and detail writing about them.

When I fished with Terry O'Malley, that was the first time I fished a reservoir. He quickly showed me that finding deep water isn't a problem. 10 feet off the bank we had 45 feet. And because the drop from shore to 45 feet was so short and sharp, there was little point to fish it (he didn't say there weren't fish there but with snags, obstacles, etc it was most of the time a frustrating situation. It would be a more efficient use of time to find other structure situations to work.

Your bar certainly sounds interesting. But for me you haven't answered an important question. That question is "where is the main channel in relation to the bar?" Mr. Perry said that the main channel is the home of the fish. To me that's the determining factor on whether I spend any time on this bar. Just because the are big numbers around you bar, the depth may be too shallow relative to the main channels.

Another thing is that if there is a big flat between the main channel and the bar - the fish may not know about this very nice bar. Depending on the situation the bar could be MILES from the the main channel which means there may not be many fish.

Presuming that you've caught fish off this bar you need to figure where the main channel is. Maybe it's just off the end or on one side. The contact point would be the spot where the main channel touches the bar.

If the end of the bar bottoms out at 140' and the deep water of the channel is straight down to 400', the bar many not 'Go all the way' thus being a dead structure.

Now lets say you do all the work, draw a picture, answer your questions, and determine the structure is worth putting the effort into - then you have some decisions to make. From your description the bar sounds fairly steep. Trolling most likely is going to be a frustrating exercise so you are going to have to cast the whole thing. You will probably need to use heavy jump lures or drop shots and just decide to work the whole thing. Counting as the lure drops, counting how many hops you get at each place the lure hits. Not particularly hard just time consuming.

I spoke to Tom Coleman a couple years ago. He lives in Arizona I think. Anyway he told me his son was fishing that day and that he didn't catch his first 6" Bass until past 60'. Water color was clear. I believe it's a highland reservoir too.

Remember in these situations your interpretation starts at the main channel. Realize that flats don't have to be horizontal, and while the bar may be considered productive, the shape or slope may not allow for productive trolling.

Good points Fran.
However, I have seen many bars end in a 100 feet or more of water and the main channel is hundreds of yards away. Yet, the bars still produced. I am assuming that the fish crossed those depths via small breaks and breaklines. The depths are great enough that they never have to go back to the main channel. This situation was a complete surprise to me when I started fishing out here. While i prefer to have the main channel as close as possible to a structure, I found while running "trolling water", that as long as the extreme depth is there, that many bars will produce, that I would normally give a pass.
I guess Buck's statement, "never assume where the fish has to be" applies.

Another example is on a very clear water reservoir(we dont have anything better here), i have experienced huge schools of adult size bass in 5 feet of water, in the middle of summer on a blue bird sky type day! No weeds, no brush to speak of, just rocky bar and there they were.
That aint supposed to happen!

Most of the time out here, we dont have to worry about snags, lay downs and the sort. They are few and far between. Just alot of short bars close to shore, and we can work them quite well.

Something I have found is that for the most part, we have a couple of good breaklines that show up at 24 feet, and the next one will be in the 32-35 foot range. This happens on several of the reservoirs here. Kinda strange to find this like this on several bodies of water, but it is what it is. I presume that this is how the rock layer formations were formed before the lakes were flooded.
For the most part, you catch very few fish at the 24 foot level. Most fish come from the 32 foot breakline and then the next deeper one is around 45-47 feet. Next is at 55 to 65 feet, depending on the structure.
And as always, out here we have to find the dirt, especially on the Canyon type reservoirs.

Fran pointed out one of the most important keys in finding a producer however I've got to agree that a structure that has 100+', even in clear water is plenty to support a school of fish with or without river channel access. It might not support the biggest fish with the biggest schools but then again only by fishing it will we get the answers. When the weather and or water condition put them deeper than what's available then they'll be dormant, just like they'd be in a shallow body of water.

I feel for you guys with that kind of Depth and clarity, its got to be a tough deal but fortunately we all found the place to get the answers.