lake okeechobee spoonplugging

[spnplgr]

In florida, the fisherman usually has to wait and wait for the fish to move. For us, a week long trip would yield approximately two good days, at most. The rest of the time was spent just spinning our wheels and waiting. And that was in yellow green water!

Why don't you check out Brooklyn lake? Although I never fished it, I saw it once, but passed it up. Since then I have seen a map of it that got me excited. It has some 35 foot holes. Nice! Also, I would like to fish Lake Geneva. It's a small lake but has a deep hole in the southeast quadrant. I saw the lake years ago during the great drought. Nearly all the water was gone except for what was in the hole. A local resident told me there were big bass in the lake. Kingsley is a lake with a very deep hole that looks to be more than 60 feet deep. Both lakes had clear water when I saw them, but if I lived in Florida, I'd fish them.

Good fishing.

[floridaboy]

I GUESS IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR ME TO EXPLAIN MY LAKE IN A LITTLE MORE DETAIL...THIS LAKE IS 1000 ACRES...IT IS A SAUCER TYPE LAKE THAT IS SHAPED LIKE A GREAT BIG COMA...THE WATER IS TEA COLORED...IT AVERAGES 4 OR 5 FEET DEEP...ONE SIDE OF THE LAKE IS 8 TO 10 FEET...THE BIG CATCH MY SON MADE WAS ON THE SHALLOW SIDE OF THE LAKE WITH NO WATER DEEPER THAN 6 FEET WITHIN A HALF MILE...THE POINT HE CAUGHT THE FISH ON IS LIKE A BEACH...THE CANAL DOESN'T CUT A CHANNEL, IT JUST KINDA FLOWS INTO THE LAKE...I TRULY BELIEVE THAT THE FISH IN THIS LAKE ACTUALLY DO "ROAM"...I'M SERIOUS...I HAVE NEVER CAUGHT A BASS IN DEEP WATER IN THIS LAKE...THERE IS REALLY NO STRUCTURE AT ALL IN THIS LAKE...YOU GUYS ALL SEEM TO SAY FIND ANOTHER LAKE...CAN'T DO IT, THIS LAKE IS FULL OF BIG FISH...ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR WE JUST BUMP INTO THEM...IT'S LIKE I AM ON A MISSION TO PUT THIS LAKE IN MY POCKET...GAME COMMISSION CHECKED THE FISH POPULATION A FEW YEARS AGO AND TOLD US THAT IT WAS LOADED WITH LUNKERS THAT THEY SHOCKED AND BROUGHT TO THE SURFACE...I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE UP...MAYBE SOME DAY I CAN HOOK UP WITH ONE OF YOU SEASONED PROS AND DO SOME SERIOUS SPOONPLUGGING ON THIS LAKE...I THINK MY BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT I TROLL FOR A WHILE THEN GO RIGHT BACK HITTING THE SHORELINE...IT IS A HARD HABIT TO BREAK...TALK TO ME GUYS, I WANT TO FIND OUT THAT I CAN ACTUALLY CATCH MORE THAN STRAGGLERS WHILE SPOONPLUGGING...BY THE WAY, IT MIGHT SNOW DOWN HERE DURING THE NIGHT TONIGHT...HELL, I DON'T EVEN HAVE A SNOW SHOVEL,LOL...LOOKING FOR A LITTLE FEED BACK...STAY WARM GUYS, RAY

[spnplgr]

Buck told the guy who bought a cabin on a clear water lake that he would have to work much longer and harder to put the lake in his pocket than the guy who fished a lake with good water color. Unfortunately, that's the situation you are in.

But let me say this. Your lake does indeed have structure. To your eyes, if you could get down there to look at it, it might look like a tiny, insignificant depth change. But if that is all that is there, the fish will see it and use it. They know where they are. It is the fisherman who is lost.

A friend of mine once watched Mr. Perry way out in the middle of a Florida lake. He spent most of the day there. That night, over dinner, my friend asked Mr. Perry "what were you doing out in the middle of the lake"? He answered, "I was looking for a 3" breakline". My friend: "Just 3 inches"? Mr. Perry: "How much does it take, Rauel"? He then explained that a small breakline looks quite large to a fish whose eyes are right there on the bottom, but looks like almost nothing to a man looking straight down on it.

If you are to be consistently successful in that brown cypress water, you have a long, frustrating learning curve ahead of you. You simply gotta put in the time and pay the price while keeping your eyes open. Everytime you catch a fish, you should ask why. When you can answer the why's, you'll pretty much be there.

Having said that, I would do the following: 1) By far, the very best and quickest way to get answers is to invite every Spoonplugger with significant Florida lake experience to visit and fish with you. There's not many left now, so you'd have to be lucky to get one these days. But who knows. You might get a taker. 2) Fish the lake from first light until the sun's rays hit the water. 3) Fish the lake from about 1 hour before sunset until total darkness. 4) Fish the lake on cloudy days, especially pre-frontal days 5) Fish the lake on those days when the late afternoon sun looks like a blood red ball on the afternoon horizon. 6) Refuse to fish the lake until the 6th day after a cold front. 7) In that shallow water, I'd speed way up when checking speeds. 6 to 10 MPH. Don't laugh, it is necessary. 8) Accept the fact that fishing will almost always be tough in that water.

Good fishing

[John Bales]

Florida boy, You had better listen to this fellow. He must be a great spoonplugger but since he does not sign his name, I cannot give him the credit for which he deserves for this information. Do not take his information lightly. He is giving you information that you may or may not deserve. The stuff he is telling you is not given to just anyone. We try to help out everyone but fishing knowledge in the wrong hands can be devistating to a fish population.
You get your tail out there in and around that 8-10 feet of water and you do not leave it for any reason. You start at daylight and you do not take your lures out of the water till you cant see where you are going. You look for a muckline. You do this while traveling from the shallows towards the deepest water in the lake. You do not stop looking for it till you find it. Maybe there isnt one but if it is there, you need to find it. It could take hours or days but you find it if it is there. Learning to catch the adult fish takes a lot of patience. You must be willing not to catch a fish for the time that it takes to catch just a few of the biggest fish in the lake. Finding out what makes a lake tick takes a lot of effort. Then finding out how to catch the biggest fish in the lake takes even more time and a lot more effort. Learning to be a good spoonplugger involes a lot. Study(and you must believe that what you read is a fact), and a lot of effort is what is needed. Time on the water is #1. Your time on the water and if you go about it correctly will give you all the answers you want in a matter of time. How much time? That all depends if you spend your time in the right places fishing in the right manner. If you are in the wrong place and fishing in the wrong manner(Depth and Speeds) then it will take longer or you will never get the answers you are looking for. This forum is a great thing for the spoonpluggers and we should thank Jim Shell for his hard work. But if you dont take what the fellows are telling you and run with it, then you will have a long hard road ahead of you. Your lake can be whipped. You can put it in your hip pocket. They have told you what obsticles you will have to deal with. You might want to re-study the section on water color. They are fishing facts that Mr. Perry found and we are lucky to have had him around. All good spoonpluggers have a lot in common. They studied Mr. Perry's books and then they went out and spent thousands of hours on the water doing it with a lot of passion. And what they find is the answers that they were looking for but at some time in their fishing, they realize that they could not ever become so good that they still could not learn. Mr. Perry was our Teacher. The rest of us will always be his students. John

[spnplgrkenny]

Thanks Mr. John and Spnplgr, Your advice is so right on the money you saved me alot of typing. One thing I know about Florida lakes is if they dont have at least ten ft. of water, then the weeds will be the sanctuary. That came staight from Mr. Perry to me.If it does have ten ft. then that is where I would spend all my time, other than the spawn. Most all Florida lakes have some big bass in them because of the long growing season. As far as the dreaded brown cypress water color combined with not much depth, really can create a nightmare. Brown Cypress equals heavy light penetration. Be on the water at first light,and at last light. What is the bottom texture? Hard bottom? soft bottom?. All hard bottom? All soft bottom? I have fished many lakes in Florida that were all hard bottom, Some were all soft bottom. A few were a combination of both. No bigger than this lake is shouldn't take long to figure it out.
If there is a 10ft. hole in this lake, I would figure it out and believe in it. I would never leave it. If there is a movement, it will probaly be short and sweet. As we all know,Shallow florida lakes are killed for several days after a cold front. pay close attention to that fact. How fast do you troll?. Hopefully fast in the warm months.How many lines do you troll? do you troll a short line?. I assume you use no bo? If so, what test? Could be important depending on bottom texture.
I fish one lake in florida that has 44 thousand acres in it yet only has five holes in it 10ft. or deeper. That narrows my fishing down a bunch. This particular lake once had a pretty yellow green water color because of good algae blooms and extended droughts. What a paradise. Then conditions changed weather wise along with man messing with the lake. The water color changed to brown cypress. No longer a paradise. tough fishing now.the biggest thing that changed was water color. shallow water and brown cypress equals tough fishing. Plenty of big fish still there, just tougher to catch.
Just think what our northern brothers go through, constant cold fronts, much clear water, yet they still catch plenty of fish, and understand conditions and what it takes to catch fish. they are awesome! spoonpluggers. It is all right there in Mr. Perrys books. THANK! YOU! MR.! PERRY! FOR ALL THIS WONDERFUL INFORMATION. kENNY
P.S. As many lakes as there is in Florida, there should be some close by with at least 10ft or more with good water color. Check it out . Thanks. Fill free to call or email me.

[spnplgrkenny]

Hello again Ray, I thought more about the three inch breakline and it jolted my memory. In the early 90s while fishing a large Florida lake an old veteran spoonplugger showed me and old river bed in the center of the lake. It took me a while to map it out. After throwing markers on the breaklines, then backing off and observing, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And you could not believe how productive this area was. The top breakline was 10ft. and the bottom breakline was 11ft. There was about a fifty yard span between the two. Upon reaching the bottom breakline, it was one hundred yards across the bottom until it started to rise again to 10ft. This old river bed was about three hundred yards long . When ziging and zaging between the top and bottom breaklines, all the fish were always caught at the bottom breakline. when my depth finder started flashing between 10 and 11ft, I would start to get excited, because I knew what was coming. Oh and by the way, the bottom was all hard bottom. once you left this area the depth stayed the same for a mile or more.
One of the greatest spoonpluggers in the country once told me if you can read florida structure situations, , other structure situations should jump out at you.
I once followed Mr. Perry on a florida stucture for a couple hours. As you might imagine, he was glued to the breakline the entire time with free swimming lures,close to the bottom. Upon returning to camp he approached me and said, I apologize for being all over the place, because today I forgot my depth finder. I almost passed out. So I asked , Mr Perry, how did you stay on that breakline so perfect with a free swimming lure without a depth finder. He said, when the bottom texture changed, my spoonplugs vibration changed letting me know to turn again. The different vibrations told him whether or not he was on the soft or hard bottom. Then he looked at me and said, you know, I did create the spoonplug. This man was truly a genius. We could never thank him enough for changing all of our fishing lives as spoonpluggers as long as we live. Thanks, Kenny

[Fran Myers]

Kenny that story is one of my favorites. I heard it a couple of years ago and while I didn't know who the story came from, I always presumed it was Frank Hamil.

[david powell]

[quote="spnplgrkenny"] The top breakline was 10ft. and the bottom breakline was 11ft. There was about a fifty yard span between the two.
Now not to start any kind of argument,but to say that is a breakline, is very hard for me . If you do the math, that means ,every foot it goes horizontal it drops less than .075 OF AN INCH can't believe that is any kind of DEPTH breakline.I'm sure there must have been some other reason for its productivity.If you can call that a depth breakline, then everywhere is a depth breakline. Just my thoughts.
DAVID

[Fran Myers]

Dave,
I am not at all qualified to argue or explain this but your going to lose. I remember thinking that same thing but the structure is so subtle there is no other name for it. Especially when Mr. Perry showed it to them...

[david powell]

Everyone else may not agree with me,but why not say it dropped only 6'' over 2 miles,i guess you woluld call that a breakline.NO WAY

[spnplgrkenny]

You may be right Mr. Powell, however these areas constantly produced over and over again. Were basically talking about dishpan, or saucer shaped lakes that looks like a flat to 99% of the people. Call it what you will. Any kind of a change must be noted in such a lake. Quiet honestly, if you fished there often and ignored this type situation, YOU would strike out constantly. When 90% of the lake is flat as a board, Believe me, you want to pay attention to the small detail of what I call a breakline. I cant take credit for finding these areas. There was about three great spoonpluggers that showed me exactly how to fish these lakes , starting with Mr. perry, along with Frank Hammill, and the late A.J. Barton. It doesn't take much difference for these fish to relate to such a small difference. Feel free Mr. Powell to Email me anytime to discuss this situation. thanks, Kenny

[John Bales]

TO ALL WILL LISTEN TO THIS VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE; Kenny is 100% right. David, you obviously have not fished any of the Florida lakes or you would never make such a statement. First of all, every lake is different. This is why Mr. Perry discusses many lake types. A fisherman must know what lake type he is fishing and through his studies, come up with a game plan for fishing them. If he does not have this knowledge, he will struggle. It would matter little what lake type he was on if he did not have the knowledge of how to go about fishing it. A person who only fishes natural lakes will have trouble fishing reservoirs until he becomes familiar with them or is told by another spoonplugger who is trying to help him where to start and why. A natural lake man would have trouble on a wide floodplain reservoir, especially if he did not know about delta situations and how the fish move on them. My first trip to Florida was a disaster. I knew there was a muckline. I did look for it. I did not find it. I did not catch any fish for a week. What made it worse was I was on the best big bass lake in Florida and it was in its prime. My head hung low for weeks after. Some time later I got to talk to Frank Hamill who may be the best spoonplugger of the Florida lakes that ever lived. He taught Kenny by the way! Frank told me that he went to this same lake 25 times before he found the fish. I felt better after that conversation.
I was not good enough at the time to know what I was getting in to. I did not expect the lay of the land to be so flat. It did appear to me not to have any breaklines at all. At least none that were visable to me or my depth meter. Even with the boat on plane, the areas that I looked at did not appear to have anything that would stick out like a sore thumb and slap me in the face and say here I am. These lakes do not have any of these type features. The bottom line is that I did not have enough knowledge period.
This is how I remember it. You would take off across the lake wide open and go 1/4 mile from the shallows on one side towards the other side of the lake and you would see little or no depth change. When I finally did see a depth change it would be only about a foot or a foot and a half and it would occur in an area of 100 feet or more. I could not interpret exactly where it started or where it stopped but I did know that it was the only change I had seen in the whole lake. If you continued across the lake, you would go a few hundred feet and it would do the exact same thing on the other side. Still, the facts were that I was not good enough at the time(lack of experiance) to be able to interpret what I saw. I was on fire as far as the area I neede to concentrate my efforts but did not have the experiance to know exactly what to do. Therefore I failed.
If I was to use Mr. Perry's terms that he gave to us to describe this particular Florida fishing situation I would describe it like this. There is a large flat area that seperates the shoreline shallows from the deepest water in the lake. It would appear that there is nothing that would guide the fish from their sanctuary to the shallows for the fish to spawn although they seem to get there somehow. Not far from the deepest water in the area, the bottom seems to start to drop slowly from 8 feet to 11 feet and from the start of this drop to where it seems to flatten out is about 75 feet. (I am just making up depths and distances as examples)....... If these fish can see to make it to the shoreline to spawn over what looks to me to be a giant flat, then what does this area that breaks three feet in a distance of 75 feet look to the fish? It must look like a mountian. Some other questions that I might ask would be would the fish make a daily migration all the way to the shallows on their movements. I dont think so. How often would the fish make it to where it starts to break at 8 feet? Not very often I would guess only on the best conditions. Where would I spend my time? In order not to miss the fish(most of the fishing season) I would check out the top breakline at 8 feet and check out the bottom breakline at 11 feet. If I did not make contact with the fish, I would zig zag the deepest water in the area and then start over. There is a lot more to it than what I mentioned as far as lure size and line lengths and bottom contents and water flow and the different activity levels of the fish but these are things that a person will figure out on his own. You did note that I refered to the 8 foot and the 11 foot depths as breaklines. The 8 ft is the top and the 11ft is the base. They are both breaklines no matter how far apart they are. A bottom content change is a breakline(muckline).......... Where the muckline makes a turn is a break. The fish stop and pause there and you and I can interpret that turn and we make some of our catches at that spot. It becomes a hot spot. If you can interpret what is there....
I have since made a trip back to Florida and John Zaborney and I got to fish along side of Mr. Perry on several of the Florida lakes and it was to this day one of the highest honors we both will ever remember in our lives. Kenny is right on the money when trying to give everyone his advice. If you dont want to listen or dont believe, then you cant be made to.
Twenty years ago I read something in the newspaper that knocked me over when I read it and I cut it out and still carry it with me every day. I'll quote it for you.
" People cannot learn by having information pressed into their brains. Knowledge has to be sucked into the brain,not pushed in. First, one must create a state of mind that craves knowledge,interest and wonder. You can teach only by creating an urge to know."
Mr. Perry is the man who gave us this knowledge. Over the years I have met many spoonpluggers and at one time I was lucky enough to meet Frank Hamill. For me, he was the one that I met that gave me the urge to know. He also did this for Kenny. Kenny and I are two lucky spoonpluggers. Believe it or not. John

[spnplgrkenny]

David, Enclosed is just a few pictures of double digit fish that came from these very breaklines I described. These small breaklines may not look like much to you or I, BUT BELIEVE ME, THE FISH USE THEM, ESPECIALLY THE BOTTOM BREAKLINE. KENNY

[Fran Myers]

Dave,
I think the biggest issue is terminology. Call it what you will. It may look to be just an angled flat but when you look at the BIG picture it appears like a structure situation to me. And if it is absolutely flat around this area for miles, then this is a KEY spot of the whole lake.

And while it does stretch my understanding of the definition of a BREAKLINE it still fits. You should know that all those pictures are recent. Also I know that Kenny is an awesome Spoonplugger who has caught more bass this year than I've caught total fish in my lifetime. When he speaks, I listen.

[floridaboy]

WELL, DAVID...YOU GOT THIS STARTED, SO LET'S TURN IT INTO A LEARNING EXPERIENCE...I FOR ONE AM LISTENING TO EVERY WORD KENNY SAYS, AND TAKING IT TO THE BANK...I FISH THESE DISHPAN LAKES HERE IN FLORIDA...YES I'M TALKING ABOUT LAKES THAT HAVE A BOTTOM AS FLAT AS A BOARD...3 INCH DROP IS IMPORTANT...THAT IS ALL THE FISH HAS TO WORK WITH...YOU CAN'T FIND FISH ON LEDGES AND DROP OFFS IF THEY DON'T EXIST...YOU HAVE TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY ARE USING AND LEARN HOW TO ADAPT...I USED TO FEEL THE SAME WAY AS YOU...AFTER YEARS OF TELLING MYSELF THAT SPOONPLUGGING DIDN'T WORK IN THESE FLAT BOTTOM LAKES, I JOINED THIS SITE...I HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH A FEW OF THE GUYS AND LISTENING TO EVERYBODY...I HAVE LEARNED A LOT IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS JUST BY OPENING UP MY MIND...SOME OF THE THINGS KENNY HAS TOLD ME SOUNDED FAR FETCHED...GUESS WHAT...THEY WORK...ALL I HAD TO DO IS MAKE MYSELF BELIEVE THAT A 3 INCH DEPTH CHANGE MEANS A HELL OF A LOT IN A LAKE THAT HAS NO STRUCTURE AT ALL IN IT...THE 3 INCH DROP "IS" STRUCTURE IN A FLAT DISHPAN FLORIDA LAKE...I FOR ONE HAVE SAVED KENNY'S EMAIL AND PHONE NUMBER...HE HAS OPENED UP A WHOLE NEW OUTLOOK FOR ME AND THESE FLAT FEATURELESS LAKES...THE FISH HAS TO RELATE TO SOMETHING...IF IT IS A 3 INCH CHANGE IN DEPTH, SO BE IT...GOTTA GO FOR NOW BUT I'LL BE BACK...THIS IS THE DISCUSSION I HAVE BEEN YEARNING FOR...BRING ON THE INFO KENNY, I FOR ONE BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT FLORIDA LAKES.... GOTTA GO...RAY