The Spoonpluggers Forum

John Bales wrote:Douglas, Your comments always bring a smile to my face. John
You would love my new lures.

Thank you my friend....you know how I like to get the no-gamble nits in a frenzy...and they go for it every time. Too funny.
By the way, I have seen that big mother you invented...that thing looks like it means business. You got a lot of heart to take off on a venture like that in these economic times...you're better than me, fo' sho'.
Stay happy and regards and hugs and kisses..(no kisses for YOU dummy, I mean for Deb).
Lata,
Me

John...
That thing you created reminds me of a conversation I had with Buck once about big lures.
I told him he should design one or two spoonplugs that were about
6 feet long and then during his travels take them across the Atlantic over to the Loch, rent a safe craft, hitch them up to the boat with a huge winch and cable like they use to support power poles, and go after that Loch Ness monster.
That would be a helluva sight seeing that thing back there jumping and raising the roof over being hooked with some metal gadget.
(assuming the things even exist in the first place...they gotta eat something)
Of course I was heavy into the Crown Royal at the time and he was busy with some new brand of peanut butter he'd discovered but he agreed that it would've been a fun adventure.
I miss that guy.
Regards,
Me

John you need to start making these and you'll be rich in no time.
http://www.bassmaster.com/slideshow/pho ... s-swimbait

That worked...heck like three hours and more than I expected even though it was from Mr. Grouchy himself.

Steve,

Those bars are exactly what I have been trying to get guys to talk about. Now its not the bar though, its the fact that the original flow of the water created something that gives the fish both a route and a starting or stopping point for their migrations. Its why I said that once we can establish why that the intersections are so important then we can apply that to the causeways, dams and other situations with the amount of detail that we need in bad weather/water conditions.

I am not going to restate what you wrote about the flow of water but its absolutely correct. The fact that Ol' Doug Bush never saw them is not my concern. He is not the only guy in the world that has no care to look for it. My concern is that weather or not the base breakline results in 50' or 35' there will be some sort of change in the bottom conditions at this spot. It is not easy to see at first but if you LOOK then you can see it. Lures or electronics they will both show it. The best way to describe the bars that happen is what you said...the others that can occur are wash's, cuts, all these things that WILL occur at the intersections will give the fish a BREAK and quite often a structure situation within the channel itself leading to shallower water.

A bend at the intersection. This is in itself the motherload...i haven't heard that in a while figured that I would copy someone. We all know that the home of the fish is the deepest water in the area. We also know that the fish are locating themselves at the intersections due to the structure situations they create, in the channel, on the breakline, or going to the shoreline.

SO if we have the fish narrowed down to a intersection and the immediate structures adjacent to it. As well as the fact that if it occurs in or very near to a bend then the fish never have any reason to leave. In fact they will not leave this area searching deeper water.

Just like Mr. Perry wrote in our material discussing the effects of a cold front on the fish; he gave a base timeline for the fish to resume regular movements.
SO question:

- What should the days look like with the weather and water conditions that were had at KY Lake? Beginning at the day after the front and going up until the day everyone left.

- How would you find the structure situation in the channel if you encountered a situation similar to what was had at KY Lake?
Joshua Travis

Thank you Josh for your reply and the great questions you put on here. It s good to see someone contribute useful info once in a while instead not posting anything or just posting garbage.

You mean to tell me that it IS possible to see and feel those places "out there in that no mans land of 50 feet of water" ?

I'll hold off and let someone else answer your 2 questions to get some more participation.

Bink....
Some good looking lures there. However, if your really into big Swim Baits, Bill Siemantel from California, designed, markets and sells the BBZ1 through Spro, in 3 models already, and his are only $34.95!
Interesting thing about Bill, is he does give credit to Buck Perry. (one of the few that will or does)
He has caught well over 200 Ten pound plus bass in the last 20 years, with over 40 going into the high teens and a couple reaching the 20 pound mark. Most are caught using the BBZ1.
Just another tool, but we still have to control Depth and Speed to make the fish take.

I might add that the new Az state record was smashed last week with a 17.48 LM bass caught at......guess where, Canyon Reservoir! Caught on a BBZ1 in deep water!
I am sure Johns lures will be doing the same thing soon. Just need more people using them is all.

The proof is in the catches. This should be an interesting year for sure.

Steve, thank you for the kind words. Now about seeing it in 50'... YES!!! But not all can, and I am no expert at seeing it but it is there. The fact that some will never go that deep and be consistent is the reason that Mr. Perry said not to go wandering around in the channel. Its damn hard but so rewarding when you find it and nail them good.

Swim baits, big ones and over 200 LM over 10# WOW!!! Smart man to give credit to Mr. Perry, not possible to have done what that guy has without him.

Other statement and question about the intersections. When a construction company builds these bridges and causeways, they take measures to lower the river in that section or to do something that allows them to build the thing. Mr. Perry spoke of burrow pits, and different dirt moving practices that for the fish serve the same purpose. They change the bottom condition. They do this in several ways, but one in particular is changing the water flow. These man made structures take seasons to build and thus become their own little piece of modified nature.

- Where at a causeway can and should we look for these changes and how will they affect out presentation of lures, mapping and interpretation? This applies to all man made structures regardless of lake type or body of water type.

Joshua Travis

Josh,
Bill Siemantel is a one man bass catching machine. I know 2 other fellows of his caliber doing almost as good in the 10 #+ range right here in AZ.
While they are not Spoonpluggers, they are doing something right. You and i cant argue with their success. Their CONSISTENT success!
With that, I ask the question?
Is there more to learn? Did Mr. Perry tell all he knew? Did he feel we were able to even understand the "more" at the time?
Can we learn anything from a Bill Siemantel?

Lets see where this question goes!

Is there more to learn? Did Mr. Perry tell all he knew? Did he feel we were able to even understand the "more" at the time?
Lets see where this question goes!

I know that there are volumes of advanced things he never wrote about.

Florida lake stuff
Deep water stuff

A number of places in the material Mr Perry made statements about going places, making catches and not saying anything because what he did was outside what most fisherman can do. He also said wire line would open areas never thought of.

At 6 years into Spoonplugging I am barely a beginner. Over the past couple years I have been amazed at what I am learning. Just this past week I have learned stuff not in the books.

I don't think that Mr Perry didn't know I just think he didn't write. I don't think the information is lost. People like John Bales and others have taken their Spoonplugging to very high levels. Again as you progress in your fishing when you look back you will see that the GREEN BOOK and Home Study are required steps. I am amazed that when you appear to step out of the materials all you have to do is reread the books and Buck suggests what you did.

Well I guess I will repeat what has been said already by Fran, just a little bit more forward.

Mr. Perry DID NOT write to us all that he knew. He did however tell a select few more than he wrote or told others. Some of the things are what Fran said:

-Deep water stuff
-Florida lake stuff

A lot of what Mr. Perry said and wrote is very very simple to understand. A lot of it at the same time is nearly incoprehisible. For instance, he always said that when fish were in their deep water sancutary they were "non chasing". He didn't say impossible to catch, I believe in my heart that this was due to the fact that most fisherman; number one couldn't find their home in deep water, number two would NOT be able to present lures or seeeeee what they need to in order to make contact at depths below 30-35'.

However, Mr. Perry told and wrote on how to do these things, just in a round about way. He never wrote anything specifically about the bars going into the main channel that the feeder creek create.

As far as learning from anyone other than Mr. Perry's followers. If there is someone CONSISTANTLY catching LM over ten lbs, I want to know where, when, how. Depth and Speed will be their answer they just might not use those words and WE CAN learn from them, better yet we should.

I would personally love to know the structure situations that this guy is catching these fish from. Now we can attribute the size of these fish to the climate, Florida strain LM, and other things. But the structures must be there and I would really like to see his or your map if you can find out where he is catching these and map it:)

Josh

Josh,
He is working lakes just like i have here. Deep, Clear, Highlanders/Canyon type lakes. Mostly southern California lakes.
He is doing some trolling, however, using big powerful Electric trolling motors, and he is using Structure, breaks, and breaklines as his guide.
Bars, points, and humps for the most part.

And i agree with your assessments you wrote above.

Doug Bush and Steve Craig, I have not met either of you gentlemen but admire both. Doug, I remember great Fishing Facts articles you wrote back in the 70's and recall one tactic you used. Steve, I admire your ability to interpret deep water breaklines and catch fish. BUT....the sniping you two are doing at each other needs to stop!

Doug, you fired the first salvo, commenting on Steve's hunting pictures, which I thought were completely out of order and should have been handled by a private message. Steve, the comments on this current thread are a response to the hurt you initially felt, but they're also completely out of order.

Let's get back to agreeing on what we all agree upon. OK? Make me your common enemy if you wish, but I know I'm speaking on behalf of many others who want this to end.

Sincerely,

Charlie

Charlie,
As always, you are absolutely correct, and i have edited my remarks.
I apologize to all i have offended.
It was NOT a Christian way to respond, and i am man enough to admit that here to all.

Moderators.....I have removed the offending posts, but can not do so to what has been copied and pasted as quotes by the other person. Please remove them there as well.
thanks.

And thank you Charlie for bringing me back to my senses.
Steve

I was asked and I reluctantly agreed to remove a post from this thread after I read it. I didn't see others but I haven't looked at all of them. Obviously this is Jim's site and I am uncomfortable doing things like this but at the same time there were posts that attacked. I think we can all agree that this site is meant for leaning.

Oftentimes opinions are strong and discussions get heated. Thats fine as long as they are respectful. But the posts in question had no value to the thread or site as a whole.

Know that I don't care who writes offending posts I will push Jim for banning the offender next time. We don't have to like each other but we can at least disagree without attacking.

This time it was just posts. Next time the writers will get banned...

Well, that surprises me in a way. I am sometimes amazed with stuff like this. If I have offended anyone by my tone, I apologize. Yet if offense is taken because of my factual statements well thats another story. Lets get back to the reservoir and...

Steve,

Would you be a dear and share some of your structure maps for these big deep b#$#ch's that you are fishing?

Not a flatlander but I would love to get some incite with those. I have been exposed to two highlanders but only one truly "canyon" type.