Highland Reservoirs

[Kevin McClure]

I couldn't find the main river channel on any map to Diamond Valley Lake Reservoir. It is a highland here in S. California and a little research showed me why. This lake never had a river flowing through it. It's a huge reservoir by S. CA standards but all they did was dam up the valley between two mountains/cliffs and then flooded it with the Colorado River Aqueduct. (Learn something new everyday)
My question is: How do you fish this lake? My gut instinct tells me it would be very similar to other highlands: Look for the side feeder creeks that are coming out of the mountains and follow them to the deepest water in the area. Look for where a bar, the side feeder creek and the deepest water in the area come together and then look for the contact point on the final break into deep water from the bar.
Would the fish follow the side feeder creek all the way to the shallows. That would have them moving vertical up the side of some pretty steep drop offs but the side feeder/erosion is still there and visible on my depth sounder which of course means the fish can still see it and relate to it also. Any help/suggestions?

[Steve Craig]

Kevin,
While DVL did not have a "river" it does have lots and lots of "wash" cuts. And since it was in a big giant "wash", the water had to run somewhere before it was dammed and flooded. My map shows a very nice channel at the lower end, running into Dam 2. Since there is a Dam 3, then there has to be a channel going that way as well. And there is on my map.
The guidlines also say that the feeder channels are the key. On this lake do not overlook even the very small "washes" or "cuts". They could be a goldmine. Look for the "dirt" that has washed out into the deep over the eons of time from these cuts.

Even if it doesnt have any river, our guidelines say that first, deep water is the home of the fish.
We start there, and DVL has alot of very deep water. Then we treat it like a natural lake and look for bars, humps, and saddles. It has all of these as well.
I believe this lake was built for drinking water, and it will probably have that color. Expect a really bad moss situation on it as well.

[Kevin McClure]

Thanks, Steve. Could you give me a picture of what the "Dirt", would look like? Did it form a certain type of structure or would it take on many possible forms? I notice when you see side feeders entering into the water, that there is usually a wash going inward toward shore and a lot of times there is a bar there, to the side of the feeder creek. Thanks.

[Steve Craig]

Kevin,
When these dry washes wash material down from above, they deposit that "dirt,rock,boulders etc., out in the mouth of the wash downstairs. The wash actually forms a bar with the deposited material. You will not, in most cases but not always, have 2 bars on each side of the wash. The washed out material is your bar.
A slide on the other hand will be like an avalanche, of material that slid down the steep face of a cliff into the water. Slides will only be good if the "slide" goes all the way to the deepest water in the area or a channel if it is present.
You and I have to use our eyes to physically see the slide above the water.
Remember.......a giant house/car size boulders slide in a totally smooth rock environment is the "dirt" .
In a chunk rock environment, then sand, pee gravel, or just clay dirt is your "dirt".
Most of the time you will need to go a long way to find your slides and lakes can have several or none, but they are worth the time looking for as long as they slide all the way to deep water.

[Bryan-AZ]

I've never fished Diamond, but from the topo map, it looks similar to the AZ reservoirs. Try to find areas like Steve mentioned. Also, your question about the main channel... Out West, generally you are fishing big ledges that drop into large flat washes...Desert Arroyos.

So...first, I'd try to find out what part of the lake the Threadfin Shad are the thickest at that particular time. The new electronics helps with that. Go to that part of the lake, if you know it.

Next, any part of the ledge that drops into the wash can be productive, but it is great when you locate a secondary wash, leading into the main wash -- same thing as the feeder creek situation -- generally they will have tall/steep sides from rock erosion -- 20-30ft deep cuts into ledge of the main Arroyo. One reason why these are really nice structures out West is because big balls of Threadfin Shad will try to hide out during the day in that little funnel area where the small wash feeds into the big wash. It might be 55ft deep, but the top of the ledge might be 25ft. Many times, the LM bass will hang out on top of the ledge most of the day...just keeping an eye out of the shad below. As the light situation changes, the Shad will move up the water column, through the secondary wash and into prime feeding range.

I like this area the best, because of the many changes in the ledge:

Diamond1.JPG (72.85 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

You can see the dark line in the topo...marked with my arrows. This is the ledge that drops off into the Arroyo/Wash.

Diamond2.JPG (108.28 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

Generally, these areas I've marked have a good chance of predators hanging around, if you have the Threadfin are in the area... The shad will be spread out in the arroyo at a certain depth, but you can generally find shad stuffed into the secondary washes. The LM Bass will generally be hanging around the tops of the ledges (red X marks) until evening.

Diamond3.JPG (117.69 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

[John Bales]

Bryan, Sorry, but when reading some of your posts, you make my blood boil. If I would actually say what is on my mind right now , Jim Shell would ban me for life. So I will just say that your guidelines for helping someone find the fish on this lake are totally hogwash. He would be far better off sticking to Mr. Perry's guidelines and use his lures to eliminate the fishing waters rather than wasting lots of time looking for the shad. The book of knowledge has already been written. By looking at this map, it should be very clear where we should spend our time. There are several good looking areas that have features to spend your time on. At no time should you run around looking for baitfish to determine where to spend your time fishing. Your depth meter is an aid for locating good structure and throwing markers. If there is a time where the baitfish being in the area becomes important, it will be observed at the same time that the fisherman is running lures and eliminating the unproductive water. This is the only way that the fisherman can gain knowledge, find the fish, and understand all the when, where, what , why and how in fishing. The one thing that has disappointed me over the many years has been the lack of effort on the part of the fisherman to go out and do the work that it takes to become a good spoonplugger. All that is needed is a bit of study and then get out there and work on the basic trolling and casting procedures.
You put finding the bait fish as the first thing to look for. I have been in and around the spoonplugging world for 41 years now and not one time have I ever read , or heard anyone else say that locating the baitfish was more important than understanding the basic movements of fish and knowing what to do to put him in the boat. I really think that you are giving out some bad information. John

[Steve Craig]

Ouch!
No need in saying something that would get you banned John.......
You are too good of a fellow to lower yourself to say or do something like that.
Take the high road and try to help both of them, not just tell Bryan he is full of it.
We need more Spoonpluggers, not fewer. Both these guys are newbies and wanting to learn.
You catch more flies with honey, not vinegar!

Just tell Kevin where you would fish. If Bryan wants to fish in those places, then he will and will find out one way or another by catching or not catching a fish.
In doing so, maybe both will learn something.
Just saying.....

[John Bales]

This was not an ouchy. An ouchy is given in a private e mail or with a phone call. I hate to see someone get off too far in the wrong direction. I enjoy it when everyone associated with spoonplugging is having success. There is always a reason when that is not happening. In the late 80's I took 4 years off and fished tournaments. It took a while but I soon realized that my learning had stopped. When a fisherman limits himself in any way by making the wrong choices in boats, tools, beliefs, he is on his way downhill. Mr. Perry would say that you can put that in your pipe and smoke it because it will happen. It gives me great satisfaction to see any spoonplugger succeed. And in some cases, I shake my head in disgust and then make a post to try and fix it. Some will listen and some will not. John

[Steve Craig]

" I enjoy it when everyone associated with spoonplugging is having success"

I believe Bryan WAS having success doing what he listed. At least when I fished with him, he smoked my butt 10 to 0 fishing those areas. While, like you, I would not have considered those spots, I tend to keep an open mind and try to find out the why he caught them there.

"I shake my head in disgust and then make a post to try and fix it. Some will listen and some will not. "

And some will never ask another question here again for fear of being jumped on like you did Bryan!
Kevin is a new Spoonplugger and just wanted you to tell him where you would fish. While you "tried to fix" Bryan, you did nothing to help the original posters question. Except probably scare him off!

[John Bales]

I have nothing against Bryan. I want to help him. A while back, I mentioned that he should spend more time learning how to run lures and in the long run, it would help him see the light. The things(shortcuts) you learn along the way are learned by sticking with the basics. I am not worried about Kevin, he is headed in the right direction.
You said that Bryan caught ten fish and you caught nothing? What was he doing that you were not? Were you not able to figure that out in the time period that it took him to catch the ten fish?
I heard that you had the same problem when you went to Florida with Kenny. Maybe you should let these guys do their own talking. John

[Duplex]

Kevin,

Buck has stated that the largemouth bass, “unlike some species…, do not venture any great distance from a particular home area… we view the bass as growing up in a particular area, and dying of old age in this one home area.” He is not migratory. This is not the case for stripers, walleye, white bass, northern, pike, muskies, and to some extent, smallmouth. You can probably throw threadfin shad in there also. “But regardless of the species, when fish are in a particular area, they use the structure that exists in that area.”

When interpreting a map, we look for structure situations. When we fish, structure is our guide as to where they will be located. Fish, in their migration from the deepest water in the area to the shallows, will pause at breaks and breaklines. This is where the fisherman must concentrate his efforts. At times, threadfin might be in the same area as the bass. We catch a bass and might assume that the two go together. But bass will eat whatever is available, i.e. crayfish, frogs, white bass, smaller largemouth, walleye, etc.

As to your question, “How do you fish this lake?” let structure be your guide. If you’re having a problem classifying DVL as some type of a reservoir, then think of it as a large natural lake. There’s one in our area, Lake Geneva, which is 6,000+ acres and over 100’ deep. Oh yeah, almost forgot, we also have a chain called the Great Lakes! Look for bars, humps, and reefs. DVL probably includes some basic man made structures indicative of reservoirs: roads, rip rap, etc.

Spoonplugger.net is a great site where Spoonpluggers can share information. But in the end, all the answers to our questions can be found by reading the Green Book/Home Study Course and then applying what we’ve read on the water. Bryan’s analysis of the structure situation may be right on but the correlation with threadfin shad is misleading and counter productive.

Over the years, I’ve used many different depth finders; the newer ones even show fish/baitfish. I’ve never seen a one-to-one correlation between what is observed on the screen and what I catch. Sometimes I see nothing and catch a fish. Sometimes I see fish and catch nothing. Sometimes I see a fish and catch a fish. So in the end, I rely strictly on the guidelines as set down by Buck.

John is telling it like it is, stick with the basics. You can figure out this lake by following the guidelines, not by looking for shortcuts. The guidelines are the shortcut. Don’t waste a lot of time looking for something that may not be there.

Jim

[Steve Craig]

John,
I will not even dignify myself with a comment to your slams at me now.

Bryan and Kevin,
I hope you both return to continue to post, but i would not blame either of you if you didnt.

Jim Duplex....Very well put post and I am sure it will help BOTH Bryan and Kevin.

I think it is time for Steve to take a little break from this place again.
It seems Johns blood is boiling again! Dont want him having a stroke because of me.

You guys have fun this summer, catch alot of fish, and learn all you can.
FWIW
Steve

[jwt]

My curiosity got the best of me, so I pulled up DVL on Navionics. First impression: "That is one big, deep pond!" But...there are feeder creeks and submerged road beds all over the place. The arm that Bryan-AZ shows in his posting has a creek bed and a road bed running from the southern end all the way out to 110'. There other two creek beds join the main creek bed at the southern end, but those junctures are pretty shallow. Just below where it says Diamond Valley Lake there is a 37' hole, then a saddle, and then another creek bed joins the main creek bed. There's a 55' hump just SE of the second submerged culvert.

Kevin you might start in that creek arm. Then too, as Buck suggests, run the rip-rap on the dams. However, if you are just starting out Spoonplugging that is a daunting lake, both size and depth, and if one is available, you might consider a different lake. Beginning at the bottom of p.63 of Volume 5, Presentation of Lures, in the home study series is some information you should find useful. Similarly, check out the Feb. 1978 parts 1 & 2 in the Buck Sez forum of this discussion board.

Good luck, and keep us posted on how you make do.

[Kevin McClure]

I would like to say thank you to everyone for their help. It is much appreciated. I'm heading to El Capitan Reservoir on Monday. (San Diego) It has much more manageable depths, even when it is full, which it isn't. I will get up to Diamond Valley Reservoir some time in May. I will keep studying it and of course take all the good advice and information I received in this topic/thread and apply it there. Thanks again and I will give a report after I fish up there. Kevin

[Bryan-AZ]

Interesting thread. I've been out on the lake all weekend fishing...

Well, it is pretty obvious that I'm on a different path than most of the people on here. I'm having a ton of fun with incorporating the new electronics into my fishing...learning a LOT about different lakes. I do like sharing what I'm learning, but this doesn't seem to be the right place. Thanks all.