wire line

[pat maio]

I've been using 12 lb wire since I first started. My assumption, wrong according to Buck, was that the heavier dia. would get down faster.
Okay...
I'd like some opinions on those that use the 17 and 20 lb wire. Ease of handling, better depth, and anything else that may help me change over to the heavier stuff.
TIA...........pat

[John Bales]

Hey Pat, I used the 12 lb test wire for a very brief time and totally discarded it. The number one reason is lost lures due to the constant ripping of weeds. If you do not have the weed problem or many snags in your waters then the 12lb test will be ok for you. If your purpose is to get to the bottom with the shortest amount of line then the 12 will do that for you. For many years we have used the 17 but even that is cause for too many lost lures where we fish in the Detroit river. Floating weeds is the culprit again and the loss of lures can be costly. We are breaking out the 20lb and trying to remember to retie more often this year. With the 20lb wire you do not want to let out too mush excess line . With too much line out the wire can drag the bottom in front of the lure and if many snags are present, many lures could be lost. Just enough to get a good walk and no more.
The more we use the wire, the more work hardened it gets. With a lot of ripping weeds and the lure coming out of the water and work hardened line we develope kinks and the more we work to get all the weeds free, the more lures we lose. So the best line for you is whatever matches up with the places you fish. The heavier line takes a bit more layers to achive the same depth but that is no big deal. If you use wire a lot you will notice it getting work hardened and especially when there is some slack between the rod tip and the lure. You can cut some off a little at a time or when the top half gets work hardened, tie it to the mailbox and walk around the garage a few times and reverse the line so that the un-used softer line is now at the top. This gives you twice the amount of usage. When you see the line starting to do a lot of curling you had better do something because you will start losing lures. John

[pat maio]

John:
Thanks for the indepth explanation of the heavier wire vs. the lighter stuff. The thing t hat stuck in my mind the most was that there was no big difference in achieving same depth with heavier wire.
Weeds are not a problem on my lake (there are none) but I have fished places where they were a constant nuisance. A case in point: Whenever there was a storm the west wind would push weeds with the current down the St Lawrence River. It wasn't so much the lost lures but the work in cranking in 10 lbs of weeds.
Another facttor that comes with experience is how to retrieve a hung lure. At the beginning it was a disaster in lost lures. Nowadays, lost lures are at a minimum. Retying the leader when it was nicked was the answer.

P.S. I'm glad you answered as you did. I've got oodles of 12 lb wire on hand

[John Bales]

Pat, At times the weeds can get so bad that you just cannot troll. Even when anchoring, finding an open spot to hit is a chore. This is mostly a summer problem when the boats are cutting up the weeds and everything comes floating down the river and messes up our fishing where they come out into Lake Erie. The weeds and a quick change in the water color can wreck a weekend but that is part of the ballgame. Jerry Borst has went all the way up to 30 lb test wire and said that it works well also. It just takes a few more layers to attain the same depth as the thinner lb tests. The size of the fish that you are after could determine what pound test you might use also. I know that we feel a lot better when hanging a big musky with the heavier pound test wire than with the thinner stuff. John

[Jerry Borst]

I think if I ever have the chance to fish in the St Lawrence River :P knowing the size of the fish (muskies) that come out of that place :P I wouldn't take a chance with anything lighter than 20lb, even if I had to add 11/2oz rubber cores to the line to get the bait down. I save my lighter wire for the bass/walleye lakes. Like John said the heavier wire cuts down on lost lures, it's a little more work but good insurance.

Another thing that has been working really well for us on the wire rods (muskie lakes) is using a 3'-4' 80lb mono leader. Never a bite off and when we get a couple of rods tangled up it's usually in the "cheap" mono leader. OH,,, to fish the St Lawrence River,,, maybe some day,
Jerry

[pat maio]

Jerrry:
I've mentioned the problem of extra clear water before due to the Z mussels and I've not been back for about 10 or 12 years. But one thing deserves mentioning:
Most guys fish for musky, northern and smallies. That's what the river is famous for but there are a few surprises.

1. The walleye can be huge. 12 & 14 lbs are not uncommon. My biggest was a 12. They like the deep structure in current and most fishermen cannot fish against the current in deep water. Some of the depths go to more than 150 ft. But the breaklines can be found from about 30 ft and deeper next to the deeper stuff. Floating weeds are a problem after a storm and the wind from the west going with the current. Not too often though.

2. Another well kept secret the pros got from the local guides is that there are monstrous largemouth in the river. Yeah! I saw them when the pros had their weigh-in and the fish were in tanks. Out of the many fish I've caught over the years I had never, even by accident gotten largemouth until I did what the guides suggested. I tried fishing the inside edge of the many weedbeds that are not too far from the current. The weedbeds are huge. Anyway, the bass stick right up close to the shoreline and any open spots in these areas are good potential. Again, all the fishermen concentrate on Musky, Northern and smallies and the largemouth mostlyl go untouched.

I miss that place terribly. To me it was the most beautiful body of water I've ever fished on and Buck said "There are fish all over the place." He fished there at least once long time ago. It is a spoonpluggers dream fish hole, or at least it was at one time. Out of curiousity I'll probably have to go back someday and see for myself if it is as tough as they say it is because of the Z mussels. Just think of all those fish that haven't been caught and how big they've gotten
P.S. From what you guys tell me I'll stick with the 12 lb wire. It has worked well for me, even in the S.L. River with the weeds.

[jjen]

Glad to find you guys! What is the best way to terminate wire to a snap? What is the best way to terminate wire to a mono backup?

Thanks

[John Bales]

The good old hay wire twist will work fine for connecting your wire to anything. When connecting your wire to your backing/ First make a very small loop in the wire and make about 20 tight together twists (haywire twist) and now you can tie your mono backing to your wire. You do not have to worry about that joint breaking because once you get a few wraps over the top of that joint, there is no tention on the knot anyways. If you ever find yourself only having a couple of layers left before you get to the knot then it is time to put more wire on anyways. When using wire line(where there are no zebra muscles) we always run a two to three foot piece of mono. At that joint, use just a #10 swivel and use your haywire twist to connect the wire to the swivel. Just a snap is needed at the end of the mono to the lure. Where the zebra muscle exists and you are using no bo, you can add a 3 foot piece of wire on the end between the no bo and the lure. Same thing here. Use a #10 swivel for the joint between the no bo and the wire and then haywire twist your snap for the lure. When using wire line where the zebra's exist you need to haywire twist a #10 swivel about three feet in front of the lure. This link allows the lures to run correctly. Sometimes just tying to a snap and then right to the lure with the wire does not allow the lures to run right. The 700 and 800 are the exception . The 100 sometimes will not run right when tying direct. John

[jjen]

Thanks much for the information!

[Garry Boggs]

When connecting your wire to your backing

John,

What line do you use for backing? How many feet of backing and how many feet of wire are you putting on your 109?

Thanks