I know that we all understand the basic concepts of fish behavior but for some of our forum attendies, these "basic believes" May need to be given a little more look into the why they are facts.
1. Flood Plain Reservoirs are the same as a Flatlander. They are exactly what they say they are. Wide open mostly flat areas that have been flooded for a large variety of reasons. Fishing them is very simple as long as you understand a couple of facts.
- These lakes are flat, even if they are not completely horizontally flat they are flats to the fish. The majority of the lake is completely void of signposts that could lead the fish from the river channels to the shore line. Mr. Perry was very clear in his statement that you must not forget that the home of the fish in these types of reservoirs, is the Main River Channel.
- A situation that occurs in a vast majority of these reservoirs that cover a large area of land is that the overall water depth is deep enough to serve as the sanctuary depth for the fish. The problem however is that like we know they are still a flat. The fish WILL NOT LIVE HERE. He may stop or pause at some point on the flat if there are breaks leading him across and the weather and water conditions are great but this is not his home.
The above basic two facts are what I think need some more in depth looking:
1. No matter what the depth of the flat is, the fish are not going to be there, just forget that the flat and the shore line produced structures they contain even exsist.
2. The river channel is the home, this we know. Any one that looks at this forum knows what I am most likely going to say. But instead of me just stating stuff, lets follow, Fran, Steve and others in the question and answer thing. They seem to get more response then when I just write stuff.
Why is river channel so important?
Why if the overall depth of the lake is deep enough to serve as the sanctuary and the shoreline produces nice structure, do the fish NOT use them?
Why are the feeder creek and main river channel intersections so important?
Flood Plain Reservoirs
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
-The home of the fish is the deepest water in the area.
-Fish won't use nice shoreline structure if there is not a path from the sanctuary
-The intersections provide a pathway to the shallows
-Fish won't use nice shoreline structure if there is not a path from the sanctuary
-The intersections provide a pathway to the shallows
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
I guess I should add that a big factor in how the fish move from sanctuary to the shallows in flatlanders is the common delta situation that "blocks" the fish from moving further shallow b/c fish will not move up and then "down" again. The delta will be as far as the go. At the intersections there will be a cut in the delta allowing the path to exist.
An example, Kentucky Lake, was the biggest water I've fished but taking small sections at a time where a feeder creek cut into the main channel made things easier. It was then a matter of just breaking down the structure situation. This is one of the most clear discussions in the Green Book but experiencing it in on a large flatlander is really important. And, when fishing on the river channel side of the delta, I often had to swing the boat out into the river channel to make sure I wasn't fishing on the inside of the delta. Another key thing I found was using markers at the intersection - either side of the cut in the delta. Especially when the break in the delta is large I can't properly fish it without markers especially only having a few days. One of the things I noticed at the outing was occasionally a boat would move into the feeder creek structure but then move along the shoreline inside the delta into the flats. Again, it looks and sounds straightforward in the Green Book but experiencing it requires a constant awareness of the layout of the bottom the first few times out before it starts to sink in as second nature.
The most interesting things I learned about flatlanders came after the outing at the IL spoonplugger club meetings where we had a great discussion about the trip. The guys I look up to really took some time discussing both sides of the "intersection" and their differences in relation to the flow of the channel. Just another thing to add to my understanding when my brain is ready.
I'm just talking out loud here, hope other people will do the same. It's going to be a long winter for me - i'm already getting itchy for ice out.
An example, Kentucky Lake, was the biggest water I've fished but taking small sections at a time where a feeder creek cut into the main channel made things easier. It was then a matter of just breaking down the structure situation. This is one of the most clear discussions in the Green Book but experiencing it in on a large flatlander is really important. And, when fishing on the river channel side of the delta, I often had to swing the boat out into the river channel to make sure I wasn't fishing on the inside of the delta. Another key thing I found was using markers at the intersection - either side of the cut in the delta. Especially when the break in the delta is large I can't properly fish it without markers especially only having a few days. One of the things I noticed at the outing was occasionally a boat would move into the feeder creek structure but then move along the shoreline inside the delta into the flats. Again, it looks and sounds straightforward in the Green Book but experiencing it requires a constant awareness of the layout of the bottom the first few times out before it starts to sink in as second nature.
The most interesting things I learned about flatlanders came after the outing at the IL spoonplugger club meetings where we had a great discussion about the trip. The guys I look up to really took some time discussing both sides of the "intersection" and their differences in relation to the flow of the channel. Just another thing to add to my understanding when my brain is ready.
I'm just talking out loud here, hope other people will do the same. It's going to be a long winter for me - i'm already getting itchy for ice out.
-
John Bales
- JB2
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:51 pm
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
Brett, Your second paragraph leaves me with a smile on my face. Why? I knew the day that I had you as a student that you would be a hard worker and had the fire in your eye. The things that you learned and your desire to learn them is what is missing in the fishermen who do not experience the success that you will have. Just standing next to you and talking, I feel your desire that has also been in me for many years and still have that desire. You study and you work hard when you are on the water and you see success.
I have said this before. As much as I wanted everyone to get into the fish, it didnt happen the way that I wanted it to. It actually took me about three days of fishing on Kentucky Lake to realize that this was a bad front and it had effected these fish just like at any other body of water. But.................... towards the end of the outing when I saw Jeff Parham's 7 1/2 pound bass and then Deb's 7lb bass the next day, I knew that this was the place I wanted to go back to next year. We cannot control the weather. We will be there again in october and we will have to deal with what ever weather conditions that we face. But if we get there and conditions of weather and water are stable, those spoonpluggers that are fishing in the right place are going to make some outstanding catches of big bass. You have a while for study on these types of waters. You know what makes these lakes tick. You know that the bottom conditions will be trying but once you find out what lure size and length of line to just tick the snags and not be hung all the time, when the fish move, the results will be satisfying.
I like the statement that you threw markers on the ends of the delta's so that you could make good passes. That tells me that you are knowing the things that you must do to become a great spoonplugger. John
I have said this before. As much as I wanted everyone to get into the fish, it didnt happen the way that I wanted it to. It actually took me about three days of fishing on Kentucky Lake to realize that this was a bad front and it had effected these fish just like at any other body of water. But.................... towards the end of the outing when I saw Jeff Parham's 7 1/2 pound bass and then Deb's 7lb bass the next day, I knew that this was the place I wanted to go back to next year. We cannot control the weather. We will be there again in october and we will have to deal with what ever weather conditions that we face. But if we get there and conditions of weather and water are stable, those spoonpluggers that are fishing in the right place are going to make some outstanding catches of big bass. You have a while for study on these types of waters. You know what makes these lakes tick. You know that the bottom conditions will be trying but once you find out what lure size and length of line to just tick the snags and not be hung all the time, when the fish move, the results will be satisfying.
I like the statement that you threw markers on the ends of the delta's so that you could make good passes. That tells me that you are knowing the things that you must do to become a great spoonplugger. John
-
The Fisherman
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
Brett, Great responses and you are certainly dead on the money for your procedures to locate, identify and fish productive structures in a flatlander. Can't argue with John that if the weather and water conditions are any better next year, the guys that were fishing like you discussed will really take em' home.
The fact that you proceeded to troll whatever distance that you did from the intersections and along the main channel breakline shows that you didn't read, you studied. Kept seasonal movements of these fish in mind and applied the current weather and water conditions to your plan. Trolling these distances and even into the arms on the breakline would have been the only way I would have fished it with what you all encountered. Fall time this is just the only way.
About the boats moving into the area of the flats and leaving productive structure at the feeder creek. This is a very normal thing. I have seen it for many many years. There is one simple answer for it and Mr. Perry made it clear as well. Fisherman get stuck in a rut. While the fish may use this shoreline in the spawn period because of its relation to the structure at the intersection, they will not use it after the spawn.
The marker thing, if you can do it without a marker and still make the proper trolling passes then you are a better man then me. There are quite a few very large intersections at a lake in GA that after fishing them for 15 years or so I still lay out a landing strip to be on point. The flats are so huge and the breakline so fast in its increase in depth that you simply cannot do it CORRECTLY without them. Using markers like you said is something that we all know and yet so many of us forget it in our basic and initial procedures when working out a structure.
- Would you leave the intersection and go towards the shore line structure created by the intersection, and it is there, if you wanted to only make contact with the largest fish in the area? Or would you fish the actual intersection for these fish? Remember as I'm sure you do from my imagination of what was said at the IL meeting, that the origional flow of water definitely created structure situations in the main river channel on the north and south sides of the mouth of the feeder creek "dump".
- The larger the size of the creek that intersects the main river channel the more pronounced the structure situation will be. This kind of structure can be found and be very rewarding but it comes with its risks!
Josh
The fact that you proceeded to troll whatever distance that you did from the intersections and along the main channel breakline shows that you didn't read, you studied. Kept seasonal movements of these fish in mind and applied the current weather and water conditions to your plan. Trolling these distances and even into the arms on the breakline would have been the only way I would have fished it with what you all encountered. Fall time this is just the only way.
About the boats moving into the area of the flats and leaving productive structure at the feeder creek. This is a very normal thing. I have seen it for many many years. There is one simple answer for it and Mr. Perry made it clear as well. Fisherman get stuck in a rut. While the fish may use this shoreline in the spawn period because of its relation to the structure at the intersection, they will not use it after the spawn.
The marker thing, if you can do it without a marker and still make the proper trolling passes then you are a better man then me. There are quite a few very large intersections at a lake in GA that after fishing them for 15 years or so I still lay out a landing strip to be on point. The flats are so huge and the breakline so fast in its increase in depth that you simply cannot do it CORRECTLY without them. Using markers like you said is something that we all know and yet so many of us forget it in our basic and initial procedures when working out a structure.
- Would you leave the intersection and go towards the shore line structure created by the intersection, and it is there, if you wanted to only make contact with the largest fish in the area? Or would you fish the actual intersection for these fish? Remember as I'm sure you do from my imagination of what was said at the IL meeting, that the origional flow of water definitely created structure situations in the main river channel on the north and south sides of the mouth of the feeder creek "dump".
- The larger the size of the creek that intersects the main river channel the more pronounced the structure situation will be. This kind of structure can be found and be very rewarding but it comes with its risks!
Josh
-
DouglasBush
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
Mr. "Fisherman" in Alaska.
What's this stuff I see you posting about your dad not fishing anymore? Is his health okay?
And also, whatever happened to your stepsister Sandy?
(by the way, you're still on the hook for our fishing shootout when you get back to West Point...you better call Tommy Mike and get some tips when you get ready to tangle with me. You going down!)
Merry Christmas and all that.....
Regards,
Old Grouchy
What's this stuff I see you posting about your dad not fishing anymore? Is his health okay?
And also, whatever happened to your stepsister Sandy?
(by the way, you're still on the hook for our fishing shootout when you get back to West Point...you better call Tommy Mike and get some tips when you get ready to tangle with me. You going down!)
Merry Christmas and all that.....
Regards,
Old Grouchy
-
The Fisherman
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
Mr. Grouchy... 
!!!
For starters, yes his health is not so good. If you have any questions about it you have my private email and you know that you are always welcome to say hello. As for his not fishing, he stopped doing all that a little while after I was born. He then completely stopped once I went out on my own.
TOMMY #$%#$%% MIKE....you are really high old man! He is nothing more than a grandfather guide. Drive around and drop live bait. I need no advise from anyone in Ga besides my old man, there's a reason that you don't want to fish against him and its not because of cheating! Our game will continue and we will have a good time, win or loose for both. but I will win
Besides the crap talking, Doug, write me an email and I will bring you up to date on the entire family situation. It is in a sad state overall.
Merry Christmas to all,
Joshua Travis
!!!For starters, yes his health is not so good. If you have any questions about it you have my private email and you know that you are always welcome to say hello. As for his not fishing, he stopped doing all that a little while after I was born. He then completely stopped once I went out on my own.
TOMMY #$%#$%% MIKE....you are really high old man! He is nothing more than a grandfather guide. Drive around and drop live bait. I need no advise from anyone in Ga besides my old man, there's a reason that you don't want to fish against him and its not because of cheating! Our game will continue and we will have a good time, win or loose for both. but I will win
Besides the crap talking, Doug, write me an email and I will bring you up to date on the entire family situation. It is in a sad state overall.
Merry Christmas to all,
Joshua Travis
-
DouglasBush
Re: Joshua Travis, The Fisherman
Josh Travis
What an honor it was for me to receive a telephone call on Christmas morning from a soldier on combat duty in Afhaganistan. I am so glad you took your time to do that.
Thanks for updating me on everything. When you get home, we will go fishing at West Point...not as competitors, but just as an old man who appreciates what you've done for our country and you, the young tiger.
You got a lot of hard bark on you, fella. I'm sure your mom and dad are very proud of you...I know I am.
I salute you.
Regards,
Doug Bush
What an honor it was for me to receive a telephone call on Christmas morning from a soldier on combat duty in Afhaganistan. I am so glad you took your time to do that.
Thanks for updating me on everything. When you get home, we will go fishing at West Point...not as competitors, but just as an old man who appreciates what you've done for our country and you, the young tiger.
You got a lot of hard bark on you, fella. I'm sure your mom and dad are very proud of you...I know I am.
I salute you.
Regards,
Doug Bush
-
The Fisherman
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
This really died quick, guess people actually have lives besides sitting and studying and waiting on replies on a forum! Joking of course we all know that there is a reason we fish....because we really enjoy a beautiful day on the water!
But in all seriousness, besides the fact that Brett noted " The intersections leading the fish to the shallower shoreline based structure situations"
- If we have a structure in a flatlander and we are fishing for Largemouth alone, why will we seldom have any success even if we find a bar or other structure situation that is not at the river channel intersection...success can and will be had at causeways and old road beds. Yet the reason behind this answers both questions. What is it in particular that we are looking for at the intersections?
- Yes if you fish an intersection then you will be better off. But if you know why the fish will use the intersection, what it produces in the way of immediate structure in and around deep water then you know what you are looking for at the causeway's, dams, old road beds, etc.
- John Bales talks quite a bit about certain populations of fish in all types of lakes. There is a key in his statements that is being overlooked by quite a few of us. There are A LOT of untouched ADULT SCHOOLS of Largemouth Bass in lakes of all types. In Kentucky, this man that I speak of fished river channel breaklines and the intersections, and the reason is right in the book, but what is it?
- The reason the fish are untouched and unknown is the same reason that we look for intersections in these and other lakes. What is it? Mr. Perry made catches in lakes like these and people said that he must have caught them somewhere else, well he did, in an area that no one else had fished. Where did he do it?
Answering this is more simple than you think but you do have to read between the lines on some of the material. You have to study it. It is well worth the hour of study that it would take to research it. Kentucky Lake next year might show a different head if the weather still sucks but you have brushed up!!! thirty, Seven pounders, verses three or so would really be a better show?
Josh Travis
But in all seriousness, besides the fact that Brett noted " The intersections leading the fish to the shallower shoreline based structure situations"
- If we have a structure in a flatlander and we are fishing for Largemouth alone, why will we seldom have any success even if we find a bar or other structure situation that is not at the river channel intersection...success can and will be had at causeways and old road beds. Yet the reason behind this answers both questions. What is it in particular that we are looking for at the intersections?
- Yes if you fish an intersection then you will be better off. But if you know why the fish will use the intersection, what it produces in the way of immediate structure in and around deep water then you know what you are looking for at the causeway's, dams, old road beds, etc.
- John Bales talks quite a bit about certain populations of fish in all types of lakes. There is a key in his statements that is being overlooked by quite a few of us. There are A LOT of untouched ADULT SCHOOLS of Largemouth Bass in lakes of all types. In Kentucky, this man that I speak of fished river channel breaklines and the intersections, and the reason is right in the book, but what is it?
- The reason the fish are untouched and unknown is the same reason that we look for intersections in these and other lakes. What is it? Mr. Perry made catches in lakes like these and people said that he must have caught them somewhere else, well he did, in an area that no one else had fished. Where did he do it?
Answering this is more simple than you think but you do have to read between the lines on some of the material. You have to study it. It is well worth the hour of study that it would take to research it. Kentucky Lake next year might show a different head if the weather still sucks but you have brushed up!!! thirty, Seven pounders, verses three or so would really be a better show?
Josh Travis
-
Steve Craig
- JB2
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
"What is it in particular that we are looking for at the intersections?"
What I "read between the lines" , and found on both Barkley and Kentucky.
Some intersections had it and some did not!
You had to be running the base break line in the main channel, and right at the intersection, you would notice where the side feeder had washed out into the man channel, forming........a bar!
Sometimes in Kentucky this would show up at 47 feet and slope right on down to 52 feet and then out to 55 or so in a matter of a few feet distance. The wash formed the bar. Which led to the base of the intersection bar, which led to either the Delta hump, or up the feeder channel.
This may not be what you were looking for, but it is what i found and i caught a few fish there.
They were even better if the deepest water swung in next to it.
What I "read between the lines" , and found on both Barkley and Kentucky.
Some intersections had it and some did not!
You had to be running the base break line in the main channel, and right at the intersection, you would notice where the side feeder had washed out into the man channel, forming........a bar!
Sometimes in Kentucky this would show up at 47 feet and slope right on down to 52 feet and then out to 55 or so in a matter of a few feet distance. The wash formed the bar. Which led to the base of the intersection bar, which led to either the Delta hump, or up the feeder channel.
This may not be what you were looking for, but it is what i found and i caught a few fish there.
They were even better if the deepest water swung in next to it.
Religion is a guy in church, thinking about fishing.
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
-
DouglasBush
Re: To The Fisherman
One of the reasons this thread died is that most people have no interest in tormenting themselves by dragging, walking, bouncing, (whatever you want to call it) out in that wasteland of 50 foot water.
Hung up, losing lures, all the rest is NOT FUN!
For what it's worth, I have yet to see with my own eyes this mastery of base breaklines in 50 feet of water. A number of years ago I was at one of those jamborees at Lake Chicamauga and some of the best were there. I, being drunk as usual, waved a hundred dollar bill around and challenged ANYONE to take me out there and let me observe this "mastery of extremely deep water breaklines" using wire and big bottom walking plugs....not a soul moved a pound. Not ONE stepped up and said..."okay mister high roller, come on and I will show you, right now and take your easy money!"
I didn't even care of a fish was caught or not...I just wanted to observe the mechanics.
Who will demonstrate? (I'm not driving 500 miles either...unless 2 of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders are there to be "hostesses")
Hung up, losing lures, all the rest is NOT FUN!
For what it's worth, I have yet to see with my own eyes this mastery of base breaklines in 50 feet of water. A number of years ago I was at one of those jamborees at Lake Chicamauga and some of the best were there. I, being drunk as usual, waved a hundred dollar bill around and challenged ANYONE to take me out there and let me observe this "mastery of extremely deep water breaklines" using wire and big bottom walking plugs....not a soul moved a pound. Not ONE stepped up and said..."okay mister high roller, come on and I will show you, right now and take your easy money!"
I didn't even care of a fish was caught or not...I just wanted to observe the mechanics.
Who will demonstrate? (I'm not driving 500 miles either...unless 2 of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders are there to be "hostesses")
-
John Bales
- JB2
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:51 pm
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
Douglas, Your comments always bring a smile to my face. 
John
You would love my new lures.
JohnYou would love my new lures.
-
Steve Craig
- JB2
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
Last edited by Steve Craig on Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Religion is a guy in church, thinking about fishing.
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
-
DouglasBush
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs
Removed by fran
Last edited by DouglasBush on Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
DouglasBush
Re: Flood Plain Reservoirs - The Problems Are Solved
Naturally with me possessing wonderful, exciting, and of course
superior intellect, I found the solution to any mysteries of deep water breaklines, sanctuaries, secret hideouts, motherlodes of monster bass, and all the rest.
Since this thing is advertised as waterproof, all we gotta do is tie a cord to it, lower it down to a suspected intersection, and sit there and wait. Then just pull 'em in ...science is the answer.
See attached picture.
superior intellect, I found the solution to any mysteries of deep water breaklines, sanctuaries, secret hideouts, motherlodes of monster bass, and all the rest.
Since this thing is advertised as waterproof, all we gotta do is tie a cord to it, lower it down to a suspected intersection, and sit there and wait. Then just pull 'em in ...science is the answer.
See attached picture.
- SoundGadgetForFeedingFish.jpg (123.57 KiB) Viewed 72023 times