Depth Sounders, Graphs, and Flashers

[The Fisherman]

David Powell,

I am by no means saying that the fish would die from a gradual temperature change. What I am saying is what Mr. Perry preached and it is more basic then what I believe you are thinking I said. A bass is a fish that has never had an original thought in his life, he has a brain the size of an english pea. He has no reality other than stability. To him change means death. He has no forethought so if the water is sinking, changing temperature or anything that is "change" he is going to revert to his safety net, deep water. He, the fish, has instincts. You know this, all I am saying is that he is following the most stable water conditions. Structure is still the guide. He is not lost nor is he wandering around looking for a thermocline. He simply follows the thermocline because it is more stable in and around it then it is in the upper water levels where the temperature is changing. It is changing fast enough to make the water stratify and to push a certain volume of water downward, so its no stretch to say that he senses this as a danger and goes deeper. It is a relation that I have never seen on electronics. But, I have followed fish in AK just like John described. I knew the water did all these things we are speaking of I just couldn't see it with my sounder. Now if I did not answer your question in the way you would like then please fill free to ask it another way.

Josh

[jwt]

David wrote a good description of the thermocline.

I would add that the thermocline is the very upper layer of the metalimnion, and is where the termperature gradient is the greatest. The epilimnion forms a thermal barrier to the mixing of surface water(epilimnion) and bottom water(hypolimnion). Because it is subject to heating and cooling by wind mixing and exposure to sunlight, the epilimnion is the most unstable. Since it is cut off from the epilimnion, the hypolimnion can become anoxic because decay of organic matter, e.g. dead phytoplankton and zooplankton, depletes the dissolved oxygen. The depth of the thermocline is also related to the clarity of the body of water and the degree of exposure to wind. Clear lakes will have a deeper thermocline than turbid lakes, and lakes with a lot of wind exposure will have a deeper thermocline than a protected lake. As a physics professor Buck surly knew all that, but he simplified it for us: start shallow with the smaller lures and work deeper until you find the fish.

[John Bales]

Hey Steve, Long time no see. A channel within a channel. If you know it is there, just look at it as another break or breakline. If you have checked out the shallows out to the base breakline and you have not caught the fish, then it is time to go deeper. If you are aware that there is a channel within a channel and you know how it runs and can fish it, then go there. John

[The Fisherman]

JWT what you wrote is a good way of describing the different layers of stratification in a body of water, as well as how it may differ due to different weather factors. You said that Mr. just simplified all this for us and you cannot be more correct. He showed and told us the easiest, cheapest, and most consistent way to catch fish. Everything written in the books are guides, so beginning with the smaller lures and working all the way down to the deepest water in the lake is the most reliable way to fish a structure. Yet if we know, thanks to modern equipment that the fish will not be where you can catch them with a 500.400 or a 250 then why waste your time? I would rather go where they are and catch them. This doesn't mean that I will toss my small lures at all, simply that if I'm on a lake with a strong thermocline that I can see; if I have already mapped the structures, then I will go to the contact points. I am not saying this to you JWT, it is just odd that people think Mr. Perry wrote every thought and fact he knew down in the books. He knew to much, the bindings wouldn't fit it all. So we should always keep working toward a better understanding. Mr. Perry designed and build depth sounders with technology that was the most high tech it could be at the time. Should we be so foolish to think that if he were building one today he would refuse to use new stuff?

Josh

[beckman44]

Steve; In reference to how hunting , trapping, and fishing are closely related. By your great pictures of all the game you called in I know you pay close attention to detail. I was an avid bowhunter for years and by off season scouting I was very successful at harvesting nice bucks. This is very similar to mapping and interpretation in spoonplugging. The deer and other animals use the terrain just like fish. My uncle is a very good trapper and I always told him if he started spoonplugging he would be very good because of his attention to detail. Nothing greater than figuring out a situation and having success. Thanks Steve for all you contribute to this site and God Bless. Bill.

[John Bales]

Josh, Yes Mr. Perry gave us our guidelines that will keep us out of trouble. After years of study on the material, it is amazing how you re-study something or come across a statement where it just blows you out of the water. You then ask yourself why when I read this before did I not feel this way? It can only be that we didnt have enough experience to completaly understand what we read. We are always looking for a short cut that will put us on the fish at this very moment. What is that short cut? What can shorten the amount of time that it takes us to be catching fish at any time or place? Is it that new depth finder? That new boat?
We have been talking about the new fangled equipment which has brought some questions and some positive and some less positive statements. All good stuff. Back to some guidelines.
I have talked about this before. These statements made by him should be framed and put up on the wall so we can look at them every day.
"Success on any given fishing trip will be determinded by how well you understand how fish move on structure, the effects on water conditions, weather conditions, and how well you can evaluate these conditions at the time you are on the water."
"The degree of understanding that you have will determine how and when you arrive at the fish. Your interpretation of structure, and of conditions affecting fish at the time, will direct you into the procedures necessary to put fish on the stringer. The approach to catching fish will not always be exactly the same, so you must react to the conditions which you face at that particular time."
Amen...............
To me, these statements cause great emotion. I did not include the paragraph before these statements. Let me include it because it ties in with what we have been discussing.
" If I were to place the importance of knowledge on any one given area, the highest degree of importance would probably have to be placed on your ability to read and interpret bottom conditions."
It matters little what type depth meter you have. What matters is have you spent enough time in study and on the water to be able to do these things Mr. Perry says are so important?
John

[Steve Craig]

Bill,
Thank you so much for your kind words. I appreciate them more than you know.

Jim,
A very nice way to say all that we were wanting to say in a very few words! Thanks!

John,
One of the best posts on here yet!

I am going to start another thread on the subject matter of my next question. Please look for it.

[david powell]

In short it all means how well you can sum up the fishing situation that you are facing .Thats what will put you on the fish qucikly,or not at all.

[jwt]

Amen.

[John Bales]

You can go through the presentation of lures to find the fish in what ever fishing situation you face or you can use your knowledge to interpret where the fish are and what you need to do to catch him. The first is a sure way. Sometimes the latter choice you may guess wrong. John PS. It is a mistake to try and tell a fish where he has to be and what you think will catch him on a particular fishing day. PS again....... On the other hand, it is very rewarding when with you are able to interpret weather and water, and find it is exactly what you had expected, good or bad. John

[The Fisherman]

You know John, repeating what Mr. Perry said doesn't make you so smart! Being able to repeat what he said on the other hand, well that's a different story! From the first post on this thread that I made, it was for the simple reason of knowing how to use what we have to our advantage. Interpreting Bottom Conditions can make or break a day on the water, along with water color and the weather conditions. So even after all the talk, we arrive at the original question. What is this dang depth meter telling me besides the water depth. It did only that for me and allowed me to fish tall weedlines more effectively and is a wonderful tool for mapping. I'm not sure where this went from a topic of learning how to use my stuff better, or what is the better of products to an argument of basic fishing facts. But I do know that it helped me a lot. Not only to understand the stuff better but to keep me thinking. You just finished saying that lures can be used to accomplish everything and they can. Most of us have done very well before any of these new things. If the entire reason behind guidlines is laid out me personally would say, they are there to help me eliminate as much fish-less water as possible, as fast as possible and arrive at adult fish and catch those fish. Then go home and think about those fish, well I kinda added the last part. If a depth sounder or a new flasher or a DSI or HDS or whatever aids me in the elimination of water then I'm gonna take all the help I can get.

Thank you to all that offered any knowledge of electronics on this thread.

Josh

[Steve Craig]

Maybe this will help out some that would like to know more about dsi,sonar and SI.
Pretty good info here.

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=557919

And here is some 3D shots!

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=682272

And some Side Image shots for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=682267

And some cool pics of a bass taking a Drop shot!

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=705086

And a great shot showing the same pic on Sonar, DSI, and SI

http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=732650

[jwt]

A little added(but maybe useless) information for those who don't know but wake up in the middle of the night wondering about it, a transducer with a 19º cone has a diameter of approximately 1/3 the depth of the water. That's close enough for a 20º cone too. A transducer with an 8º cone has a diameter of approximately 10/1.5, 20/2.6, 30/4, 40/5, i.e. depth/diameter. For skeptics, and those with different cone angles, you can work it out yourself using the formulas from high school geometry:

sin θ = Opposite / Hypotenuse
cos θ = Adjacent / Hypotenuse
tan θ = Opposite / Adjacent

Keep in mind, those numbers are for the design cone and don't take into consideration the return from the side lobes.