spnplgrkenny,
thanks for getting in there. I can not agree with you more on needing all the help you can get. I have been blessed to fish in many different places and now Alaska. When I got there I learned that contour trolling a weedline without electronics is really next to impossible. I like to think that I do OK with my Spoonplugging, and if there is something that we have to do its learn more. I am sadly from a generation that just loves little gadgets. My wife keeps up with all that stuff for me because I never had it so I am really just lost in the woods on most. I try to read about depth sounders and what kind of adjustments make what kind of difference but you can't really understand until you see it. Also I truly appreciate the ending comment, Thank You.
To jump back to the subject of a flat here, how many of us have run into a very large structure that looks GREAT but is void of breaks? This can really stump some of us and we may not pass it up. Now this could go back into electronics but lets kinda see if we can stay on the structure situation. When I say very large, I'm speaking of a structure that literally is well over a mile across.
-Can you have what appears to be a good looking structure from an aerial perspective, yet the space in between the breaks/breaklines is simply to great to accommodate a normal migration?
-The water color can and will obviously be the determining factor on the above question, clearer the water the farther the distance between breaks.
-How can you approach a structure as listed above and eliminate it?
-A vertical flat...we have all read it. How many have really thought about how to work it? How to eliminated the water.
-Why are bridge pylons as effective as they are? At first glance they seem like a vertical flat but they are not, what breaks do they contain that we can see or feel?
Joshua Douglas Travis
Fish CROSSING what SEEMS to be a flat!!!!
-
Fran Myers
- JB1
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:08 am
- Location: St. Paul, MN
Re: Fish CROSSING what SEEMS to be a flat!!!!
I am not so certain bridge pylons are so valuable vertically so much as horizontally and giving breaks all the way from the deep to the shallows. We see vertical movement because there are bolts, seams, or changes in shape that can be used to allow fish to move.
Fran Myers
-
The Fisherman
Re: Fish CROSSING what SEEMS to be a flat!!!!
Fran,
I will not disagree that the pylons give a path from the deep water all the way to the shallows because they certainly do. Now, in a causeway situation, there are a few different structure situations.
1. The rip rap and the build up that took place to form the causeway as a whole. Due to how they are constructed they make really great breaklines, and breaks.
2. The pylon area, and the pylons themselves. The pylons on a large majority of bridges have cross members on them. I have spent a whole lot of time fishing these situations in particular.
-In the pylon area of a causeway there are, I believe, two primary ways the fish can use it. The first way is the most obvious and it is horizontally. The river channel should make its way through this section of the causeway and its from their that the fish begin their movement. In this case the fish use the base of the pylons the same way they would use any other breaks, they eventually should lead them to the rip rap itself.
-The second way is vertically. This seems to be a colder month situation, where I have found that the fish will move vertically up the pylons stopping at the cross members that serve as breaks. If a pylon was completely smooth then it would never get a vertical movement, it would be a flat. But thanks to the cross members(concrete pylons) and the bolts(steel) we have a "man made structure situation" that is productive.
Now there is a third way that I have seen as the largest majority of where you will find the active fish in a causeway situation. It is a combination of both of the above mentioned ways fish use it. In the summer and fall situations I have experienced that most of the time the fish will not hold at the pylon directly in the river channel nor on the rip rap. The largest and largest numbers will be concentrated at the pylon that finds itself on the best breakline near the scatter point(8-10') in most cases. So basically the fish use the situations in combination. They begin their migration horizontally moving toward shallower water and using the base of the pylons as breaks, once they reach the "shallows" whatever that depth may be the school stops and the smaller fish that do scatter do so vertically using the breaks on the pylons themselves.
By no means are either one of us wrong here Fran. I have experienced both, and its just a seasonal thing. This is why Mr. Perry said that causeways were a great thing, but I still like my creek intersections the best. For most of us working 30+ at the intersections themselves is very difficult, but Mr. Perry wanted success so he spoke to the masses as he should...causeways are a safe bet. The basic point I was trying to get across about the pylons is not all are productive and neither is all rip rap and there is a way to eliminate them very quickly, with or without a lure in the water. Also that most pylons in a causeway situation are just like a flat if they have not other features. If you catch fish there consistently then you need to re look and find a different approach to checking them out because you have missed the breaks leading the fish vertically on that flat.
Joshua Douglas Travis
I will not disagree that the pylons give a path from the deep water all the way to the shallows because they certainly do. Now, in a causeway situation, there are a few different structure situations.
1. The rip rap and the build up that took place to form the causeway as a whole. Due to how they are constructed they make really great breaklines, and breaks.
2. The pylon area, and the pylons themselves. The pylons on a large majority of bridges have cross members on them. I have spent a whole lot of time fishing these situations in particular.
-In the pylon area of a causeway there are, I believe, two primary ways the fish can use it. The first way is the most obvious and it is horizontally. The river channel should make its way through this section of the causeway and its from their that the fish begin their movement. In this case the fish use the base of the pylons the same way they would use any other breaks, they eventually should lead them to the rip rap itself.
-The second way is vertically. This seems to be a colder month situation, where I have found that the fish will move vertically up the pylons stopping at the cross members that serve as breaks. If a pylon was completely smooth then it would never get a vertical movement, it would be a flat. But thanks to the cross members(concrete pylons) and the bolts(steel) we have a "man made structure situation" that is productive.
Now there is a third way that I have seen as the largest majority of where you will find the active fish in a causeway situation. It is a combination of both of the above mentioned ways fish use it. In the summer and fall situations I have experienced that most of the time the fish will not hold at the pylon directly in the river channel nor on the rip rap. The largest and largest numbers will be concentrated at the pylon that finds itself on the best breakline near the scatter point(8-10') in most cases. So basically the fish use the situations in combination. They begin their migration horizontally moving toward shallower water and using the base of the pylons as breaks, once they reach the "shallows" whatever that depth may be the school stops and the smaller fish that do scatter do so vertically using the breaks on the pylons themselves.
By no means are either one of us wrong here Fran. I have experienced both, and its just a seasonal thing. This is why Mr. Perry said that causeways were a great thing, but I still like my creek intersections the best. For most of us working 30+ at the intersections themselves is very difficult, but Mr. Perry wanted success so he spoke to the masses as he should...causeways are a safe bet. The basic point I was trying to get across about the pylons is not all are productive and neither is all rip rap and there is a way to eliminate them very quickly, with or without a lure in the water. Also that most pylons in a causeway situation are just like a flat if they have not other features. If you catch fish there consistently then you need to re look and find a different approach to checking them out because you have missed the breaks leading the fish vertically on that flat.
Joshua Douglas Travis