Water Color, Weed Lines, Bottem Conditions

[The Fisherman]

As most know I am in Afghanistan for now. Before I was stationed in Alaska. The species and lake types were vastly different from anything I had ever fished in Georgia, Florida, Texas, Tenn, Kentucky, North or South Carolina. So I thought since I cant fish right now why not study. Also John Bales has put out such EXCELLENT videos for us, that the things he taught about should certainly be expanded upon. By no means am I saying he did not teach anything well enough. Simply his videos were made to be studied along with the "Home Study Course" and "Green Book" Just trying to get everyone as excited and glad to see this all come together as I am.

Water color: Water color will to a high degree tell us what the fishing conditions will be like on the body of water in which we plan to fish. Also they key us in of what the bottom conditions will be and how deep/far the weed line will run into the lake.

Weed Lines: Weed-lines are like Gods own markers. They show us the structure situation in the shallows and as far out as they go. The can be challenging at times to follow and fish correctly. Mr. Bales does an amazing job of showing how to "CORRECTLY" follow, mark, and fish a weed-line. The interpretation of each weed-line is the key to success, just as it is on any other fishing situation.

Bottom Conditions: Bottom conditions , as Mr. Perry wrote and spoke about, are very important. Not as much to do with the fish's behavior, but more so in order with our presentation of lures. Much discussion has been had about the "Muck" and fishing under, just above or way out of position.

SO... My point IS...Here is a map. Water color should be able to be speculated by the fact that this lake is located in Alaska. It is on a "chain" situation, yet the water levels between the different bodies of water are very skinny.

The species are:
Silver Salmon, Rainbow Trout, Northers and Dolly Varden.

Questions:
What is the likely water color in this lake?
What are the likely weed conditions?
What are the probable bottom conditions?
If you were to fish this lake, where would you begin your presentation? With the species present would you change presentation once mapping and interpretation had been accomplished?

I am certainly not a no it all here guys just trying to get us all talking about more than boats. I think we all like learning new things about fish, and fishing. All of these things were new to me perhaps they are to you as well. Enjoy.

[charlie myers]

Good questions. I'll attempt to get the ball rolling on answers. As for water color, I would expect it to be at least moderately clear. I didn't see any creeks/rivers flowing into the lake to help with a better color.

Weed conditions would probably extend in the 12-15' range. It doesn't seem likely the bottom conditions would be condusive to walking a lure outside the weedline, so you'd have to work as close to the bottom/weedline as possible without a heavy walk.

I would begin by the campground on the east side, as this likely is where the launch would be located. I see some very good, long bars with deeper water nearby, along with a saddle or two.

As for lure presentation, I'd start out with standard spoonplugging disciplines. If the depthfinder showed suspended fish out over the deep holes directly related to the bars, I'd probably run a second rod (if legal) to target any trout species or pike up high.

Thanks again for posting. All these situations stimulate our thinking, and hopefully makes us more aware when we're on the water.

Charlie

[The Fisherman]

Charlie,

Thanks for the interest here. You are spot on on water color and bottom conditions. There is however a feeder creek that the map does not show and I should have drawn it in. I will re-post image. It does little to contribute to "better" water color. So as far as the rest of everything goes I will wait to say any thing until we get a few more posts.

Updates have been made with some preliminary markings, ie: before your on the water.

Note water depths and "possible" structure situations.
Notice what Charlie said about the weed line depth. How will that effect your mapping process, if at all?

[Fran Myers]

I was going to write on this but I got stuck working all day.

I was thinking that this was going to be.one of the black water or tanic water lakes. Usually there aren't a lot of weeds. Very steep shoreline with the.bottom mostly rock and gravel. Man I was wrong. Interesting.

[The Fisherman]

Fran,

Your expectations are EXACTLY what I thought that I was going to run into when I got up to Alaska but to this day I have not. Now there are several lakes that I intend to fish when i get back that are more "glacier type" and I believe that the water color should be more on the dark, but not dingy side. Now as to the " steep shoreline and rocky gravel bottom" There are many lakes in the immediate area where I live that have those conditions. This one on the other hand only has one piece of structure that you can troll, on the bottom, because there is only one structure where it has good hard gravel like bottom. My only thought onto the reason behind the water color, muck bottom, and weed condition is that the surrounding areas are farming areas. The only thing that I recall Mr. Perry provided in the guidelines is that this is generally caused by pollution of one kind or another. I wish that I had posted surrounding land conditions, for I think it would have been more leading to the correct direction.

Now, I have spent probably 40-50 hrs on this particular lake. I have caught all species that I listed as available. But key things to note...

These fish are in Alaska. " A fish is a fish is a fish" But...their seasons are a quite delayed and MUCH shorter due to geographic location. This took me a few trips with limited and small catches to figure out. It also took some species discussion with John Bales. Mainly the issue comes in when targeting the trout species(Disregarding Lake Trout) in this and other bodies of water.
But as we all know proper lure presentation and boat control can allow us to use bottom bouncing lures and stay just above the muck and weeds.

With the weed conditions in mind, it would in my opinion be a good idea to look at John Bales' video on "Following a Weed line" Also review in the " Home Study Course" pg. 50 of VOL. 3 Structures Breaks and Breaklines, The illustration and ensuing discussion Mr. Perry opens are of the uppermost importance with weed conditions such as we have in this lake.

Questions:

Are there any potential structures that I did not mark?

With the species available in mind and the weed condition noted, do any of the potential structures that I marked stand out among the rest?

With my statement on the seasons being delayed(spawn starts around mid to late May) where would you focus your efforts if you were going to fish this lake for the first time in May? June? August?

These are all questions that I was dealing with guys. I sat around quite a few days studying before I went out. All the answers are clear and exact and all are answered in the Green Book and the Home Study Course.

Enjoy fellow Spoonpluggers! I hope to get some good responses, and there defiantly should with all the knowledge on here.

P.S. Mr. John Bales...your not allowed to answer if you don't mind cause we all know that you know...plus you helped with the original problem.

[Bill Patterson]

Has anyone mentioned the 44 foot area? Especially the sharp break from 20 to 30 feet?

[The Fisherman]

No, It has not been noticed that we have heard of. But I'm sure that someone did. When I was first going to the lake, I focused on areas that had a more pronounced structure situation yet certainly still near the deepest water. What I did find later on in the first trip is the area and specific break(20'-30'). There were significant movements of large fish there. Where the contour lines show a projection or bar, just to the NW of the break previously mentioned, there is a nice break(tree with many branches running all the way from 0'-10' shoreline to first contour/end of bar). I have my belief on migration route, good weather contact point, bad weather contact point, and sanctuary(which is obvious here). But "SPOT on" calling me out on my first marking. I had missed it as well until I was on the water. Simple an oversight but probably cost me some fish.

Migration route of fish?

Stopping points?

Based on the break I spoke of, where would the fish be on a good day? Bad day?

*The breaklines themselves are the key to migration in this and many situations*

[The Fisherman]

Structure Situation A

[The Fisherman]

Forgive my coloring skills. By no means is having a map to this detail of necessity. I just enjoy trying to show whats down there without draining a lake. But the depths, breaks, breaklines, and in this case the weedline are of importance. Just like the Books say. You can have it as simple or as detailed as possible but have it, and understand what you have.
-Structure "A" is the of the Island situation with the saddle. The the saddle adjacent to it has a red circle on the map i posted.
-Everything on the map I believe is self explanatory. But on the bottom center of the map I have written, "Migration Route" then arrows lead all the way to the shallows. This is not a guess here I have followed them up and down during good moments.
-all weeds come to the surface or within one foot of it.
-there are two migration routes with two different schools of fish.
-all bottom conditions past the weedline are "MUCK" any tolling done has to be ON THE MONEY with depth control.

I have laid out the structure situation here. What "sign posts" do the fish use from the deep water sanctuary to the shallows on the saddle? What about in moving to the island? Will both schools of fish potentially go to the shoreline of the island? Both are similar, yet vastly different at the same time. There are two completely different structure situations within 300yds of each other. I have left the structure that Northerns use out. It has its own more in detail map.
The top right of the paper has a 40' hole and a bar with weeds going to 14'. This spot is productive for Northerns but nothing else. I don't know why maybe you all do. Due to the weed condition there this spot is nearly impossible to troll and catch fish. But casting can kill them during a good movement.

Does this stuff make sense to anyone or am I wasting my time here guys? Is it worth me writing?

[Steve Craig]

You are doing a great job! Keep it up.
This is the stuff this board needs, and you are getting some participation.
Nice job Josh.

[The Fisherman]

Thanks Steve,

I learn more about the structures that I'm posing questions about just cause they get me thinking again. Heck if two or three people are just looking and thinking to themselves then thats good enough.

Josh

[The Fisherman]

Ok so as we can see and know the home of the fish is the deepest water in the area. The deepest water in the area is 30+ feet. SO they live there. They return there in bad weather/water conditions. They DO NOT HAVE to leave this area. "Their diet may change but they will eat" The fish upon proper weather and water conditions(Low light-Pre frontal) move from their deep water sanctuary to the break, at 23' down to 27'. If W. W. permit they move ALONG the breakline to the 14'-26' break with the large DIFFERENT weed i drew in in dark green. The fish now move UP the break and to the top of the breakline where the WEEDLINE begins. This puts the fish in a position to either move directly up the face of the weeds/ follow the breakline to the next DIFFERENT weed/ or scatter back into the weeds and never move shallower/ the final option is for them to stay put, ie: weather and water conditions have told them they will not go any farther. So with all of this in mind there is still more on the saddle from a seasonal point of view.

-Which parts of the structure and where in the migration routes do you expect to find the fish on a good day during:
a. pre-spawn
b. spawn
c. post-spawn
d. warmer/summer months
e. fall conditions
f. if you were going to drill a hole to ice fish

-Lure presentation:
a. Your target species is rainbow trout. How will you follow the "guidelines" and strain the shallows to deep?
Will the weed condition effect your tool selection.

b. Silver salmon, the difference is that the salmon use the contact point and the deep water breakline for movements. So how will you present lures to them? Remember the bottom is muck so walking is going to be tuff, but you can still "tick" and know where your at as to stay in position.

[The Fisherman]

Structure Situation "B"

[jwt]

Josh,
Maybe I missed it, but what is the depth of the weedline? With a 10' contour interval there could be a lot going on that doesn't show on the map. Looking at the 40' and the 44' holes, what is the depth of the first breakline on each? Are there breaklines that go all around the holes? If so, any fingers or breaks, e.g. sharper breaks, on the breaklines? Are there secondary breaklines?

[The Fisherman]

jwt,

thanks a lot for the questions. I guess there should be two answers for the first part of your questions concerning the 40' and 44' holes.

-the 44' hole has an entirely separate map that I have not uploaded yet. I will shortly. To answer about the structure situation on the hole itself, there is little. it almost "peters out" there is however a break that serves a major purpose on the migration of fish from the 44' section toward the shoreline. It should stand out and I believe that the map I will upload will answer more questions about that.

-the 40' hole. I thought that I had noted that I had a more in depth map of that. guess not but i will try to get it from home and upload it as well. this hole also is more of a gradual decent from the 20' breakline to the 40' depth. but there are breaks leading the way and water color plays a part as we know in the possibility for breaks to be farther apart. I will get the map and upload it with some explanation and see if it will answer your questions.

There is still one or two areas on the actual lake map that don't necessarily stand out but with the northers present they have to be considered once your on the water. I will put those maps on once we get kinda summed up on the three we have now.