Side scan depth finders

[Tabor]

I went to a seminar yesterday where the hummingbird rep gave a talk on the new technology of sidescan. It seems this new technology could save alot of time for a spoonplugger on the water. It shows you up to 240ft right and left from your boat and shows structure, drop offs, feeder creeks, points etc. It seems you could mark it with gps even if its 150 ft to the side of where you are and go back over it and troll getting very close to the contact point. Almost gives you the map downstairs. The fine tuning could be done with the spoonplug but it seems to me it would eliminate alot of time working to find a structure/contact point. If you know the fundamentals of spoonplugging, this seems invaluable. I realize it does not eliminate working the shallows and then deeper but does seem to cut out alot of searching for fishing areas. Any thoughts on this?

[spnplgr]

Do you know how to tell when a salesman is lying? HIS LIPS ARE MOVING!!!!

I have some advice for you. Get in the boat with someone who can and will demo one of these devices on a body of water you know very well before you spend one cent. During the demo, keep in mind that a fool and his money is soon parted. Only after you have seen one of these devices properly demonstrated on structure you know very, very well, will you have enough information to make a decision. After the on-the-water demo, make a list of questions you might have (jot them down as you ride along on the demo). Also make a list of pro's and con's. List even the petty things that you are aware of. Then, when you have all your notes organized, talk it over with the most experienced Spoonplugger who will listen to you. Finally, think long and hard about how it could/would improve your catches.

What about it's attributes and capabilities? Does the image display on the screen in real time or is there a time delay? Does it have multiple scroll speeds? I.E. Will it scroll fast enough, when you are trolling at high speeds, so the boat does not outrun the signal on the display? How wide is the cone angle of the transducer, both side and straight down. How large is the blind spot at the bottom? The size of the blind spot directly under the boat is a biggie!!

Good fishing

[Gary Schiffner]

spnplgr,

I laughed out loud, I see you feel the same way about Salesman as I do!

A new depthfinder is on my list of things to get, but no immediate hurry. I'm sure we will talk about it! Everytime I think about a new unit, I remember how all the early Spoonpluggers did without and are probably better for it. Paying Close attention to what the lure is telling you takes a lot of "undivided attention", not distractioned by electronics!

[Steve Craig]

LOL

There is nothing wrong with technology, be they rods, reels, boats,motors,or electronics. What we need to keep in mind is that we need to remember to use all this "stuff" as an aide. If it begins to take you away from the basics of Spoonplugging, then it can be bad for you.Like Gary said above, they can be a huge distraction from what you should be watching.
I have been the gamit with the aides, and believe me, it cost me fish,time, and wasted energy in the long haul.
When I finally began to "listen" to what the lures were telling me, I got better, and better. The lures are our teacher.
A wise man told me recently that " we need to have the basics ingrained in us so they are second nature, or we will never get better". We will actually get worse, if we dont do this. Trolling motors are an aide, and should be looked upon as such.
spnplgr and Gary gave some excellent advice.

FWIW
Steve

[beckman44]

As tempting as the new technology is, be careful because when a person starts spending a thousand dollars or more for an aid, we start to expect big answers from our investment and may sway from the sound basics. You could get alot on the water training from one of the top notch intructers for the amount of money you would put into one of these units. Knowledge is the key!! Bill Beck.

[Fran Myers]

Hi Nick,
I have heard the Hummingbird Side Scan's are very good. Also I should say the Lowrance HDS's are having a lot of problems. I think if you buy the Hummingbird you would be happy. I am sure the salesman read and demonstrated all the features accurately using the enhanced simulator.You can easily verify what he said by going to the Hummingbird website and downloading the manuals and possibly a simulator to see if you really like the unit. This is exactly what the salesman did.

Now that being said I have to say that you MAY be spending money better used else where. I get all screwed up looking at the side scan views. But that doesn't mean you would. But as a Spoonplugger what do you really expect from spending your money? 3D pictures, ability to put a cursor down and get a way-point, make it take the place of your flasher? Now I have written extensively on GPS error and the error input by converting the signal into the picture. So I will save that. Except to say the multiple inputs and detailed pictures is not going to be faster than regular graph type displays.

But I will give you an alternative to your choice. First, if your using an Zercom Flasher REALLY consider changing to a Vexilar Flasher. I makes a HUGE difference. Finding slight depth changes is easier. John Bales was amazed at the difference's and he was a die hard Zercom user. Now he uses Vexilar. The top of the line unit is about $479.

I would get a smaller (6in) GPS/Sounder. I have a Lowrance LCX model. Or a Hummingbird 700/800/900 series. Something that has good maps and at least 1 SD card slot I could use. That way I can get my data captures, put them into the Lowrance Simulators where I could put the cursor where I wanted and get the LAT/LONG and make a way point at home or I could just do it on the fly with the unit itself (I like doing it at the comfort of my desk at home). I think you could buy both these units (Vexilar and a Lowrance/Hummingbird) for less than the money of one of the larger Hummingbird Side Scan models. Lets face it, if you're going to buy the fancy unit you'd want to see as much of the detailed picture as you can without squinting.

Now if you buy these two units and you still want to make contour maps and 3D pictures. It's easy. It just costs money. With enough data you can cover an entire lake. If you want a 3D picture, all you have to do do is zoom in, hit a button, and then use the arrow keys to pan around the structure. You could even do it in the boat by connecting a laptop to the NMEA(?) network your going to have to install when you purchase any of the equipment you look at today (except Vexilar). I even import my structure captures into Google Earth and make my own lake maps.

Now I spent a lot of money. Because I am lucky and a gadget freak. But know this. Using the Spoonplugging guidelines, I have never been surprised by anything the software showed me. I did get a better overall picture and I was able to verify what I had seen with the flasher but I never really had a EUREKA! moment.

So spend your money, you earned it. Just make sure you are getting the value you expect.

The screen shots that I added were from data that a MN Spoonplugger gave me. The Whole lake was eventually mapped but it happened over a couple of seasons. Thanks for the data Pat! I believe Pat did the flats just to complete the whole lake.

Fran

[spnplgrkenny]

Wow, Some really good stuff about new technology. A field i am really lacking in. The depth finders of today are remarkable, I am sure. I cant imagine how big the learning curve might be. I am still somewhat old fashioned when it comes to change. No doubt technology has outran me.

I am using an Impulse microtrac CRT depth finder. These units have been obsolete for 25 years. I still buy everyone I can get my hands on. Someone ask me, what is so special about those units?. My reply was, nothing, I just know exactly how to use it, and know exactly what I am looking at. I rarely ever turn it on automatic, I turn it on manual and adjust my gain accordingly. This really gives me an advantage on what the bottom texture is. As we all know, At times, that can be important.

However, if you turn the gain down to much, you start to erase valuable information. I have been on the water many times when other fisherman approached me with the high dollar units asking me, What are you so interested in on the bottom?. I advised them that I was looking at a large school of fish. One guy stands out in my mind. He ask me if he could view the school of fish with his unit. I moved over and he made several passes, back and forth, just looking. He then advised me, he couldn't see any fish. I had a marker thrown on the fish and ask him to make a few cast near the marker. His first cast yielded a 5lber. He caught several more bass after that. I surrendered the school of fish and moved on. Later, he ran me down and thanked me. Despite him having a 2000 dollar depth finder, he wanted to know what kind of unit I had, and where he could find one. The learning curve can be very painful. I am sure, once you learn the new units, they could be a valuable aid. Until then, I will continue to use the old impulse. The bottom line is putting that spoonplug down on the bottom and let it do it's work. The greatest mapping tool in the world!!!.

Spnplgrkenny,

[Tabor]

My original comment was not the price, i agree the cost is somewhat prohibitive however the way I understand it if you can get a general idea of the bottom in an area with one pass covering 240ft right and 240 ft left it seems you would eliminate alot of passes with the other units or a spoonplug pass to see what is down there. Once you see an area you like or have a better understanding of the bottom (quicker) then you would be able to concentrate on fishing areas quicker. There has to be some logic to my thinking since the seminar I have found that alot of rescue teams have been adding them to their equipment to find drowning victims quicker than dragging or typical sonar units. This seems like it would be more valuable deeper than shallower for evaluating fishing areas.

Nick

[Fran Myers]

Absolutely correct Kenny.
The thing about the Vexilar is that it does have gain control as every other sounder. But what it does do that most other sounders don't is something called low power.

When you're shallow with soft bottom, weeds, or other difficult bottom conditions - the Vexilar has a feature that reduces the power of the sound wave being sent out by the transducer. You see in the soft bottom, in shallow conditions the wave can snack the bottom so hard that you might actually get a bottom indication that is UNDER the actual bottom because the wave went a foot or two into the soft muck. Combine this with some gain adjustments and a dual cone transducer...It can be a really surprising eye opener.

The are two familys of Vexilar. FL-8 and the FL-18. Then the FL-12 and FL-20. The big difference is display type. Now the next big this is the difference between the lower number units and higher is features. The Lower numbered have the 1/2 powered wave for just 0 to 20 feet deep. while the higher numbered units have 1/2 power settings for all depth ranges. There are other feature but these are the one I use most.

I also have changed my mind on the dual cone transducer. I really like it.

Kenny I bid for that week.

[Tabor]

Fran,

Who carries them. I went on their website and it seems they were promoting them mostly for ice fisherman. Did not see them listed at cabelas or bass pro.
Nick

[Fran Myers]

This time of year they pump the heck out of Ice fishing kits. I bought mine at Fleet Farm, but it was an Ice fishing kit that I had to get the boat kit from Vexilar. Just buy the Floating model and you have all you need, once you pick the transducer. Go to www.vexilar.com buy direct from them. They are on the other side of the city. I just go there and buy what I need. They also may be sold out of Boat stuff right now, but it won't be long before they restock. Small company, been around a long time. Nearly as long as Lowrance.

Look at the videos, I had my first one before I saw them and I really learned a lot about using them. However even they don't know what we do with their equipment. If they did we'd blow their minds.

I know what you are saying about not being a cost issue and I believe you when you say they are cheaper for Rescue than buying the whole tow fish system. Plus Hummingbird can be used much shallower than the real fish style sidescan. Harold Edgerton really invented a cool machine.

Fran

[Tabor]

Fran,
are the videos you are referring to on their website?
Thanks
Nick

[TN Dave]

Nick,

The videos are on line at Vexilar at the address that Fran gave.

Keep in mind the videos are not "Spoonplugging" videos; but do show the how the Vexilar units operate. I bought an FL-20, as per Fran's and John Bales' recommendation. I am well pleased with the unit; and when Fran or John are in my boat, they don't complaini about my [old] electronics.

TN Dave

[Tabor]

Thanks, I will take a look and try to figure out how to read the screen since I am used to lcd. Am in the market to replace my garmin 240 which is getting moisture inside the screen. Tried sealing it twice.

[spnplgr]

To get the moisture out of your Garmin, put it in a 100 degree oven for a couple of hours. Careful! Do not get the oven hot enough to damage the unit.

To keep moisture out of it in the future, put a plastic automotive battery box over it (upside down). You will need to drill two holes, one on each side, to match the depth finder mounting bracket holes so you can attach it firmly in place. Once mounted, cut a small viewing hole in the end of the box so you can see the screen through it. Keep the hole as small as possible in order to keep out the maximum amount of rain, spray, moisture, ect.

Depending on the size of your Garmin, you might be better served to get a smaller box than the automotoive battery box. You'll need to mix and match some boxes in order to get the best fit, but the idea remains the same, regardless of the size.

I have run this type of cover on a unit that is "water resistant" for more than ten years without any problem at all. I have used the unit in some heavy down pours from time to time and it has served me well.

Good fishing