Something I noticed

[John Bales]

Three or four years ago I noticed something strange when fishing my lake in the month of August. My lake has a lot of deep coontail weeds. They are mostly a single stalk and can grow at a depth of 15 feet or more, and growing to within 5 feet of the surface. I was motoring to the next spot when I thought something was wrong with my depth finders. Both traditional sonar and down scan was showing the deep coontail kind of leaning and not straight up and down . I seriously thought something was wrong with my units so I shut them off and re booted . Same thing. So now I ask why? This happened within two or three days of a cool down from hot and humid , and temperatures in the high 80's and low 90's to the 50's at night and the daytime highs in the low to mid 70's. With this change in temps, the surface temps went from around 80 to 74-75 in three or four days. That's about the time I noticed the weeds were leaning or dying. Only two things could have made this happen. A drop in air temps and water temps and the amount of light change beginning to be less for the time of year. Yes we always try to answer our questions we may have about a fishing situation. Some are guesses and some not. When I see a change such as this, I also look at it in terms of stability. I would have to look at this as something has changed and this has to be unstable for the fish. To me, fall is the most unstable time of the year and the fish will remind us of that!!!!!!!! This is the start of change. Right now, the thermocline is set up well. A slight change in surface temps will send this cooler water down and this mixing process will continue right up to surface temps to around 50 degrees when about that time period, most thermoclines are gone and things become more stable with the water condition. The toughest times of the year is when we are faced with both changing conditions with both weather and water conditions. The stability or the lack of it, will control the fish movements. Any time you question a fishing situation, go back to the basics of the green book. Most all the answers are there. Some may have different thoughts about the science of thermoclines and all the variables that go with it. All lakes are different. I can only observe what mother nature shows me and compare my catches to how the fish are reacting to what is seen. We cannot control these changes but can only control our depths and speeds to maybe off set these changes and accept the outcome and learn from it. It's amazing how many of those answers are in the green book and so thankful that Mr. Perry wrote down all his findings so you and I can see some success from our efforts. Thank You Mr. Perry. John

[MuskyAddict]

Good observation, John. That is the kind of observation that can only be made by spending a lot of time on the water - enough to notice a stalk of coontail leaning. Nicely done.

One thing I noticed this year is that the thermocline in my lake is set up 7-8’ deeper than last year. It’s only my second year on this lake but that strikes me as a big difference. I too thought something was wrong with my electronics but subsequent days on the water show the thermocline is consistently deeper than last year I’m wondering if you or anyone on this forum have noticed that on their lakes or if thermoclines often fluctuate year over year.

It hasn’t seemed to affect my overall catch rates except that my bass numbers are up and the pike numbers are down. I’m finding bass at deeper depths than last year. I suspect that perhaps I’m not deep enough for the larger pike. Clearly we had a very different weather pattern this season - especially in the early spring through June. No doubt that has created instability. Fish are also more spread out this year. I’m also connecting with more walleye this year. Perhaps this is because I’m learning more about fishing deeper breaklines, which the deeper thermocline has allowed. It’s all a learning process and I too am thankful for Buck Perry and the information he shared.

[John Bales]

Ken, Weather and water conditions control movements, good and bad. Then you have things that are not from mother nature and the outcome of that may change populations, how they react and may change their locations completely. Could kill some of the adult fish. So now you have to take weed spraying into consideration. Man has always screwed things up and that won't change. Until someone tells these people that they might not want to put poison in our lakes because it may not be a good thing . Most people just do not care about the things that live in the lakes. They just don't want weeds. Never in my wildest dreams did I have a notion that someone could spray poison in our lakes and take away most all of the goodness that mother nature gave to us. How do you say to a young person that's never been into a school of big bass that for him, it may not happen.
Conditions change hourly, daily and no two days are ever alike. That's why the learning never stops. Stability is good, change is bad. Is the spraying of poison in our lakes a stable condition? John

[MuskyAddict]

John, I’m seeing firsthand what spraying has done to Sarah. They spray the curly leaf pondweed early in the spring. The pondweed provides a deeper break and cover for the post-spawn fish to recover and migrate back to their sanctuary. When that’s gone the fish have to adapt. As you’ve said many times, small fish adapt to change more quickly than large adult fish, which may never adapt. The spraying of milfoil and other grasses (up to as shallow as 100’ from shore) is killing the deeper clumps of grasses that were a stopping point and ambush point for the larger fish. Those spots that were important to the fish are gone this year - and the fish had to adapt. I fear that the bigger fish are struggling to adapt. I haven’t caught a bass over 5 lbs all year. I’m not that good at this yet but I did catch a few of those last year.

All of this has kept the lake unstable and difficult to learn the normal migrations and behavior of the fish. I’m not making excuses because I know hard work will still produce knowledge and results. But it has made me angry and a bit jaded toward lake homeowner associations, who care more about the weeds in the intakes of their wake boats than the fish in the lake.

[John Bales]

Ken, Have seen virtually all of our great spoonplugging lakes taken from us. Every one of them were great because they all had a dark yellow green water color and man had left them alone for many years. Once the weed sprayers got their foot in the door, it was over. Every single one of these lakes got a heavy dose of poison and that first shot did most of them in. All fish do not come to the surface when they die like many think. The average person has no idea of how bad our lakes have become. The reality is that most just don't care either. I have three lakes that have schools of nice bass, that's pretty much it. When I vary from those lakes, I am likely not to do well. It's that bad. John

[site admin]

I always found that this time of the year fishing is very hit or miss. As you mentioned John, the "change" starts happening (unstable). Went down to central and southern Il a week ago. Fished 2 lakes I know very well. A few small bass on one lake and zero on the other. This changing/unstable condition shuts them down bigtime. Fishing the great lakes this time of the year is better. Probably because the change is more gradual on the very big bodies of water.

[Hal Standish]

I always found that this time of the year fishing is very hit or miss. As you mentioned John, the "change" starts happening (unstable). Went down to central and southern Il a week ago. Fished 2 lakes I know very well. A few small bass on one lake and zero on the other. This changing/unstable condition shuts them down bigtime. Fishing the great lakes this time of the year is better. Probably because the change is more gradual on the very big bodies of water.

I know it well after the last front came thru two days of nothing on two different lakes Not to worry it all straighten out Actually looking forward Autumn. Its been a good year!

[Hal Standish]

I always found that this time of the year fishing is very hit or miss. As you mentioned John, the "change" starts happening (unstable). Went down to central and southern Il a week ago. Fished 2 lakes I know very well. A few small bass on one lake and zero on the other. This changing/unstable condition shuts them down bigtime. Fishing the great lakes this time of the year is better. Probably because the change is more gradual on the very big bodies of water.

I know it well after the last front came thru two days of nothing on two different lakes Not to worry it all straighten out Actually looking forward Autumn. Its been a good year! prolyl take tomorrow off and save some gas and personal energy.

[John Bales]

For the last three years, I have been a spotlight or a scoper. I have used this tool to take my understanding of what I already know and learn more with this different view. We talk about fronts and changing conditions and how it effects our catches. Look at the large area of the country these last fronts has effected. We have all been effected by the same fronts. Yesterday I wanted to take the wife with me. She hates Livescope because she knows by being in the back seat and not a great caster that she is limited to what she will catch using this method. I took one of the guidelines out of the green book and we caught 10 bass with 3 pounds being the biggest and lost two more really good ones. I picked the best water color lake I have near me and did nothing but troll spoonplugs, not crankbaits but spoonplugs. The fish were caught at 12 feet using a 200 with no bo. Not too difficult.
With some weather conditions, nothing can duplicate the depth and speed control of the spoonplug to make a fish take the lure. Nothing!!!!!! To me, right now is one of the toughest times to catch a fish of the whole season. This cold spell came a bit early but once it comes and stays, that time period it is so important to go to the lakes with water color and plan on doing a lot of trolling. Many times this is the only way to make a decent catch. I cannot express how important this is. A couple or more tough days is always a reminder of how important water color is. John

[joseph radunz]

John,

Do you think that there’s any connection to this time of year and night movements? Seems like this dog days lull time is about when a guy can start getting a few good night workouts in. Just curious.

Joe

[John Bales]

Hi Joe, When the heat of the summer is upon us and the fish are biting and all of a sudden, everyone I know starts to suck, I immediately spend a night or two fishing from about 8:30 till about 2-3 in the morning. Usually we get them pretty good and sometimes they move pretty shallow but sometimes they just don't. When they don't move up on top, we drop a little deeper and sometimes do well. They have to get a little active to make a catch just like the daytime stuff. What happened the two nights we did fish at night this year, there was a good movement 20 minutes before dark, there for it didn't happen once it got dark. We can't be out there 24 hours a day to make sure we are fishing when the movement happens. Yes your idea is on the money. John

[joseph radunz]

This sounds bad, and I don’t mean it that way, but it’s reassuring to hear that others were struggling too, I thought I lost the touch. It seemed like one decent cold front changed the game over night. I’m not ready for fall yet - just means winter follows. O well, can’t stop it.

Joe

[John Bales]

Joe, I agree. I think this cool down came a bit early but we still get the same results when it comes to change in mother nature. I cannot wait for the great fall fishing comes upon us but I don't want the season to end either. August still sounds like summer but September we know that things start to go the other way real fast. I still have a good months to fish but you guys can be ice fishing when we are still on the water. I am jealous of Brian for the main reason he can now fish through the winter. He will get a good picture of where they spend their time in the winter versus the rest of the season. I'll be replacing jigs that I have lost and my best buds too. That keeps me busy. Actually worked for a month last winter to help out one of my neighbors in his business and might do that again this winter to help pay for my habit. We can discuss fishing situations among those who speak our language and lucky for us, Buck gave us some pretty good guidelines to help answer some of our questions. The same changes happen every season and we know those lulls are coming. That fall period to me is one of the toughest times of the whole fishing season. Everything is changing from after that first frost till the thermocline is finally about gone when the surface temps get to about 50. After that, things become more stable and from then on, its my favorite time of the year. For years I have figured out that when things are bad and those changes start taking place, if you go to some water color and spend all day on the troll, you can still make some great catches. On the worse weather and water conditions, there is no equal to the depth and speed of a trolled spoonplug (plus the bump if you can), to make a fish take. This control cannot be duplicated on the cast, period. Water color is the real key. I have about three places like this. They are all lake chains with small rivers feeding them. They have saved the day for me many times. Great catches after turnover can be made and very satisfying but depression comes when you absolutely know it is getting close to the end. I stopped busting up ice at the ramps these days because for one, I'm not as tough as I used to be and I have broken a lot of equipment (including my body), trying to get that last day or two in before its over. We all suck or just make the wrong decisions at times but when we score, that goes a long way in keeping our attitude good. Take Care. John

[joseph radunz]

I was just thinking about changing conditions in lakes. Early August this year the lake I’m on had its annual algae bloom. When this happens the water color gets so green that the weedline, which typically runs anywhere from 12-16’, starts to die off and recede due to lack of light penetration. Within a week’s timeframe the weeds receded back to 7-8’. The weedline was loaded with fish the first two months of the year. Since that week the lake has been very hit or miss. My original thought was that the weedline became too shallow to be used consistently anymore. Now after reading this thread I wonder if the change in structure was too rapid and turned them off. Probably a combo of both? The only other break lines in the lake are much deeper but cutoff due to the thermocline. I’m guessing fish are suspended just above the thermocline out over deep water. I just can’t get myself to wonder around out there with no guidelines. So now what? Wait for turnover? Got to be a way to find them somehow. Anyway, no point to my rambling. Just thinking out loud. Anyone have any thoughts?

Joe

[John Bales]

This happens every year but its difficult for our brains to accept that changing conditions can make catching fish so bad. Within a few days of temperatures cooling off, deep single stalks of coontail weeds will start to lean. The trees have started to show some yellow or orange. Observing mother nature just like you noticed the change in the weedline, will let you know that more tough days will happen until the water starts to stabilize when the thermoclines goes away. Yes this tough fishing can last a while. My schools of bass are busted up and the last few days, the fish are busted up and belly to the bottom so tight that you cannot see them.
I have always said that right now can be the toughest time of the year. Fish start to move around from flatter summer spots to areas closer to deeper water and more sharper breaking areas. In post spawn, around here it takes 4-6 weeks for the bass to move out to the outside weedline and my guess would be that it will also take some time in weeks again for the different species to move to other areas to fit their needs.
The key to all good fishing is stability in weather and water conditions. These two things control the movements of the fish and their activity or the lack of it. The reason I pick this time of year as the toughest is because weather and water are both changing at once. One way to off set this is to stick with the best water color lakes and plan on trolling for most of the day. Continue to cast on a spot where adults are caught just in case a school is available. Change is always bad and a fast change takes more time for the fish to adjust. If any condition causes a major change , man made or natural , the fish will make what ever adjustment in order to survive. They could completely leave an area when the change no longer fits their needs. John