Max Depth of 800

[Fran Myers]

Morning,
Mike and I went fishing on the St. Croix River on Saturday. After hitting some of my known spots, we went to a bar that I hadn't worked that much, but I know it produces. I just haven't been there when there was a movement.

We followed the steps. Casted the shallows. Trolled the shallows. Used markers so we could follow the main break line (16 to 22 feet). We bumped down quite a distance. Problem is the breaks are nearly vertical, so one person is hitting, the other is just trolling parallel to the bar.

We hit one side of the bar that had actual break lines, the other was just straight down.

We found a finger I didn't know about, which is why people are catching muskies and smallmouth there. We also found the end of the bar had kind of an "M" shape to it. The base of the "M" was at 65 feet and the top was about 40 to 42 feet.

Mike used a homemade lure and hit 42' with 11 layers. I had an 800 with 22 layers and couldn't. I let the 800 on wire sink. I went upstream and down stream. And didn't hit it.

Now the guidelines say a few things.
*Dump till ya bump
*To be effective, we need to be able to fish 0 to 60 feet

So with this in mind I should have kept going back and forth adding 2 layers at a time until I bumped. Unfortunately, boat traffic didn't allow for much more effort. I will go back. I am pretty sure I can get the spot, I just haven't hit yet. But I still have to ask - Is a 800 even capable of hitting 40+ feet?

When Buck said "To be effective, we need to be able to fish 0 to 60 feet" did he mean for us to troll that deep or were we supposed to start vertical jigging, or what.

We weren't too disappointed. Mike hit it so if anything was there he would have gotten it. But it made me think of these questions.

As a note, we had very tough conditions. Water high, clear sky, 7+ water color, and lots of debris. I probably wouldn't have chosen this river except Mike wanted to see this beautiful area. We both came away with a good structure map though. And we caught a few fish, too.
Fran

[Jerry Borst]

A vary important piece of the fish catching puzzle is seasonal movements, early on in the season we should be thinking shallow, if the fish are not shallow then most likely they will be in a dormant state. However learning the limitations of "ALL" our baits is a must.

The one thing about fishing deep is we learn what's there, we learn contact, stopping, and spots where the fish pause. Later in the season, after the spawn recovery has taken place these fish become very active and catchable. Most of the time these deep contact points are fairly small, once we identify them as potential producers then checking them by casting is going to be more productive, sure we can make a quick little trolling pass and if we hit something we should quickly get at em gigging.

To reach 40' with an 800 it's gonna take a lot more than 22 wraps, the 1st 50" fish we caught did not come for many years because we spent most of our time on lakes that did not have the depth to produce numbers of fish of that size. That fish finally came trolling an 800 with more than 40 layers in 46'. There is a right tool for every job and if I'm going down stairs, way down stairs, 11 or even 30 wraps sounds way better than 40+!
Jerry Borst

[MartyMcAvoy]

Very interesting report Fran... to answer your doubts of the 800's capabilities, while fishing Cumberland for the 1st or 2nd time...weather was lousy, cold front central, I worked a bar extending from an island, & w/an 800 @ 50 layers on 20lb wire, it was @ 50', & verified this as I made a long straight-line pass in the 65' channel, the bar extending out, going all the way...rose to 45' quickly, & dropped back off the same, my 8 began walking up 1 side & back down the other, & w/what I expected to be its last bump, instead a cooperative 21+" BucketMouth ceased its disruptive behavior. My Deepest Fish to Date, Sue handled the Net as well. We made several more passes w/out any takers. So, I am quite certain the 8 was in the vicinity of 50', considering the amount of walking it did, & the top of the bar only reaching 45' where we crossed it @. Although I have on occasion, found any particular lure of any series, seem unwilling for what ever reason, to attain its intended/specified depth...just putting it aside & getting another to check it against satifies that. Although I also understand that much wire is undesireable, maybe this is a good place for a braid?? More managable, & forgiving? Hope this is helpful, Marty.

[John Bales]

Hey Marty, Braid does not attain as much depth as wire. It does have a time and place but not into the extreme depths. For the way that it is more easily used and for ripping weeds and depths from 15 to 30 feet, it will work just fine but will not replace wire. I have used it plenty and always have two rods rigged but most of the time it sits near the bottom of the rod locker. Zebra muscles cut braid like it is nothing . This is one drawback.
Most important is that you understand how and when to fish deeper and you are able to interpret just where to place a lure. All the other stuff of what to use as far as equipment and how to get there are only another aid to do a job.
Take Care John

[MartyMcAvoy]

Thanx John! U All r Truly Appreciated. To have U, Denny, Ted, as well as all the other guys sharing their hard earned knowledge & experiences w/us, saving us time, headaches, & $$, I for 1, do all I can to make the most of it...like a sponge, absorbing & reflecting on what I have seen & heard, Marty.

[Fran Myers]

I have been experimenting with one 109 filled with 65 pound PowerPro in place of a NoBo. Spoonplugs are going deeper than normal with standard lengths. 3 layers LESS give the correct depth.

There have been some problems. When bumping the lure can tumble and the hooks get caught in the line easier than with NoBo. I think it's because PowerPro isn't as stiff. I also find that if you let the line out too fast when first letting the lure out, the same thing happens.

I really like using PowerPro though. I was using PowerPro for leaders against zebra muscles. The bad part was weeds were getting caught in the swivel at the NoBo connection. Going completely PowerPro gives the same zebra muscle protection without the problem.

Still early in the experiment though.

[jwt]

Braided lines, e.g. Fireline and PowerPro, are made from Dynema and Spectra respectively. While nylon has a stretch factor of 20%(more when wet), Dynema and Spectra have stretch factors of 5% and 2% respectively. Here's a table from a test of stretch in various lines
http://www.shallowwaterangler.com/featu ... index.html

You might want to consider a monofilament shock leader to reduce the risk of ripping the lure out of a fish's mouth when trolling at any kind of speed.

[John Bales]

Hi Fran, Braided lines do not stand up against zebra muscles. They will cut it like a knife through butter. Maybe they are not bad where you are but where rocky bottoms and zebra muscles exist in tandom, you will need either a piece of heavy mono or use your stainless steel to make a leader. Any time that you run a spoonplug straight to either steel or braid, you loose the ability of the lure to work properly. The problems that you will have is when doing this with wire and walking a lot, the loop on the spoonplug will wear through. This shows how much more pressure is put on that spot when the lure cannot work right.
When using braid and the smaller lures, a piece of wire (the same that you use to troll with) will allow the smaller lures to achieve their depth and the same time will give a link and allow the lures to work. With the bigger lures, a piece of heavy mono from 50 to 80 lb test will give you that link and allow the lure to work.
Those zebra muscles have made us do things that we never had to do before. Today I fished a lowland reservoir. It is literally full of snags and zebra muscles. The smaller lures were used on no bo with a 3 to 4 foot section of 20lb wire. The snags stick up so high that a shorter piece of wire will still get you cut off. You do what works best in your situation.
Experimenting will cost you some lost time and lures but in the long run you will find out what works and made it usefull. John