This is what I see coming

[John Bales]

Brian, I have to disagree with you. Not really. I agree with everything that you said to the tee. Right on the money!!!! Start out by the book. Learn the first three size lures on a lake with no weeds or only weeds to 3-4 feet. Learn the shapes of your structures. See how weather and water effects the movements of the fish. Learn to use shoreline sightings. Find the contact point(very important). Do this for a season and then see where the new depth finders can help you. A good spoonplugger can interpret a structure situation in a very short time using any device that shows how deep the water is. I am talking minutes on a small structure with only a few fingers. No depth finder or mapping process can duplicate what you can do on your own with a little experience. A year or two. Without this base of knowledge, the rest means nothing. If there is any shortcut, it is based on knowledge through experience on the water. With this knowledge, the new equipment becomes something to learn a bit more. John

[MuskyAddict]

As always, I get honest and thorough answers to my questions. Many thanks to the responses. I certainly don’t want to take shortcuts that inhibit my learning- and ultimate success. My boat is out of storage and we are likely a week from ice out. I can’t target predator fish (due to seasons established by our DNR) for a few more weeks but there is no reason I can’t get out and try to learn how to map structure. I’m sure after trying and failing multiple times I’ll have plenty more questions.

I’m grateful for this forum.

Ken

[tdub77]

in the vid with Randy B he mentions his partner Jonny. I have watched Jonnys vids and he is very educated when it comes to deep water fishing. Randy on the other hand, as he mentions himself, is more of a traditional bank fisherman. I believe he is off base when comparing fishing to baseball and basketball. These are more talent driven sports and what are you going to buy that can give you an advantage? Fishing could be more closely related to racing. In racing you have different classes, with some being a spec class and others being an open class. In a spec class you are only able to use certain parts that are available to everyone at a reasonable price. This helps to keep it so everyone can compete. In an open class sky is the limit. I honestly believe that livescope will be more of a value to someone who already has the knowledge of what makes a fish tick and how the environment effects him. But I suppose someone could drive around all day and look for fish but that does not mean he can catch them. I put live scope on last year and you definitely will see fish you didn't know were there. One example is I was running it while trolling a weedline and all of a sudden there will be a group of panfish 15-20' in front of the boat and as I get closer they just scatter. I thought that was pretty cool.

Now on to why we don't have a lot of spoonpluggers is 1 if you tell someone to read the book and when they are done then you will talk with them, no one is going to do that. I originally found out about spoonplugging from Don Dickson's informercials in the 90's. I was 14 maybe and I bought one of his tapes, and then I bought the one about presentation of lures and he talked about spoonplugs in it. I went to my local bait shop and they had no idea what a spoonplug was and then I finished high school and forgot about fishing for a few years. Then a few years later I was going through my stuff I had left at my folks house and I found those tapes. We had this internet thing then so I looked up Buck Perry and found the national club and joined it and contacted a local spoonplugger here and he took me fishing and showed me how to contour troll. He never made me read the book before he took me out. Pretty sure Mr. Perry didn't make Don Dickson read the book before he took him out that day in Florida. Maybe we need to show people what we can do before we make them learn everything first.

I believe Mr. Perry states something like the reason we contour troll the shallows is to lead us to the structure. This is in the green book I believe. Now I never met him so I can't say for sure, but this is what he did with the tech he had at the time to find the structure. Once the structure is found we then run staightline passes to help us identify what shape it is and what the bottom is like through the feel we get from the spoonplug bumping. Again this was because of the tech he had at the time. Now I am not knocking this in any way, just stating a fact that is how he had to do it because of the tech at the time. Then he developed the depth sounder, now with this tech you could short cut contour trolling to find structure, you may even be able to see the shape of it by getting on a breakline and follow it around the structure. Now because you didn't contour troll the shallows you may have missed a fish or 10 and because you didn't straigtline troll the structure you also may have missed a fish or two, but maybe not. But the only way to catch anything is to get a line in the water.

Now we have side and down scan and forward looking sonar. So What. Will people be able to see more fish with it? Yes. Does this mean they will catch more? Maybe. I have had people follow me trolling and never catch anything because they don't understand depth and speed. And even if people do start catching more fish is that a bad thing? I don't think so. Maybe it will get them to search more about why he was able to catch fish in a certain spot one day but the next time he went out, he could see them but couldn't catch them. This is where we need to come in and help them with our knowledge that we got from Mr Perry. Then maybe they come with us in our boat the next time and we teach them more. Then they decide to join the club because we are a cool bunch of people willing to share our knowledge and have fun catching fish.

Tim

[Bink]

Figured this kinda went along with this conversation.
This was posted on Group page for a local lake today.

[John Bales]

Tim, I like your attitude. Your statements and ideas let me know that you spend enough time on the water to understand what you and I need to do to catch a fish . We all know that the more time we spend on the water, the better chance we have to learn. I am sitting here this morning thinking about different lakes around here and elsewhere and not sure about anyone else but when I start thinking about where I am going to go and what I might need to do, a lot goes through my mind. Like what are the fish doing in respect to the spawn (around here), the local weather conditions, (the last several days including the day on the water), normal movements for this time of year (seasonally), trolling or casting and what gear to make sure is in the boat, water color choice, specie choice, fish populations, structures available for lake choice, small quiet lake or big lake with lots of traffic, and much more could be added. Just wondered what thoughts others might have before a lake choice is made for a day on the water. John

[phillip szafranski]

John, looks like I will take the first shot in responding to your question at the end of your last post. I find that the objective of what I want to accomplish on the water is ever changing. When I first moved to Florida, I initially fished new water each time out regardless of success. I wanted to understand what was available to me. I then focused on water color, to narrow my fishing opportunities and determine quality of population. Once I understood the populations, I then focused my efforts on the most complex lake nearby and the complexity sharpens the skill and creates a challenge. The challenge aids in the learning process. Once my brother in law became my seasonal boat partner, the efforts are to catch fish plain and simple. In between his on the water days, paper mapping becomes important and sets the stage for focusing on catching fish once he is in the front seat again. Along the way, I have visited some water that once were Spoonplugging favorites for (Buck and Friends). Interesting to witness the water color changes since Mr Perry and friends fished them. Now currently, looking at new water with color has become important again and once a quality lake is located, it is time to enjoy catching quality fish before my next focus. While the objectives change, the approach and presentation of lures does not change when on the water.

[PhissingPhil]

Terrific checklist from John!

Often the thoughts for me are related to what other person(s) are coming along, if any.
What do they want out of a day on the water? Do they even want to fish?
If they want to fish, what would they want to catch? Where do they want to go? What do they want to see?
Lake Erie Perch is an entire different creature from Piedmont Lake Musky or Kelley's Island SM Bass.
Yes, a fish is a fish is a fish, but...
How serious are they about putting in the work? Do they even want to "work" at it at all?
What do they want to eat, drink...? Will they be comfortable? If not, how will they react?
What do they insist on ? What do I insist on? How will we both react to reluctance?

Hmmm...Too people oriented & not enough fish oriented?
We may seek to get different things out of our time each and every day.

[John Bales]

My fishing partners are all spoonpluggers and we think alike, fish alike, and put forth the same effort. Great partners. John

[phillip szafranski]

In reading all 53 responses the overall tone expresses uncertainty regarding Spoonplugging and how the new wave of electronics is the "Game Changer" of the future of fishing. Game Changer is now the buzz phrase within the Industry and Livescope type products will be putting fish into the boat with minimal effort. In reading the various posts on this website, I found it interesting to read John's post regarding NIGHT FISHING. We all know that John is a highly motivated and skilled angler. He is focused when on the water and is technically sound in presenting lures. So, I ask myself why must John go through the grind of fishing at night when he has the skill and the Game Changing technology at his finger tips??? It tells me that the expensive technology is not the magic it is marketed to be. Most who will buy this product will under utilize the tool and will be spending more time looking at the screens and working with tech support.

With regard to the future of Spoonplugging, I am not ready to buy the headstone for the grave site at this time. Most things and people evolve with age. When doors close within the Spoonplugging Community we also are presented with doors of opportunity on the horizon. The future of Spoonplugging has yet to be determined and time will tell. I am optimistic because the internet offers unlimited boundaries for Spoonplugging. I for one do not plan to order any flowers for the grave at this time.

At this time the new technology is offering unrest within the fishing industry. Sentiment is building within the ranks of fishing and many think this is becoming an elitist sport which is driven by those with $$$$$$.

[John Bales]

Phil, I was not done with the night fishing just yet. Having such a blast with 17 fish between 3 and 4 1/2 lbs had me wanting more so I went out two more times, back to back 8 hour nights. I am always getting phone calls from spoonpluggers. Some conversations the fishermen have the crying towel in one hand telling me how tough it has been and believe me, I have those times also but most is understood. The main thing for me is to get those answers to the why questions. Anyways, Duplex had caught a few nice bass in the middle of the day which I could not do before my first night trip. Also got a call from another guy who said he had a pretty good activity around 2:30 in the afternoon on the day I was going to do two night trips in the next two days. There was a front right after the first night trip which netted 37 nice bass. The moisture and temps dropped and the information from the other spoonpluggers may have indicated that we might have two tough nights. The bottom line is if you don't go , you don't know. The first night produced 14 fish in 8 hours, the second night 11 fish in 7 hours. The first night I caught one over 6lbs, a 4 and three over 3lbs. The second night we never had a fish over 2 1/2lbs. Some of the best spots or areas we had on the night we got 37 did not produce much and the action came from a few areas the did not produce much on the first night. There are different types of areas you have to consider when checking them. Some areas you can reach the shallow water(inside edge) when the boat is in 15-18 foot of water. Some areas the distance from the outside edge to the inside edge could be 75-100 feet so two passes must be made to check deep to shallow. Here again, the best learning experience for me was in order to catch the fish, you must not only be doing it correctly but must be there when the fish become active. Since you can't fish 24 hours a day, you just might miss them when you are taking a siesta. By the way, I have never caught a 6 pounder from my lake. Back in the day, there were so many bass between 4-5lbs that it just wouldn't grow one. I kept telling the wife that I should get a really big one soon because the population that is in here right now has a chance to have a few freaks. John