The drop shot

[John Bales]

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Mr. Duplex wanted a map. Hope this helps. Jim, You are not getting my shorline sightings. John

[Duplex]

John,

Thanks for the Spoonplugger map. I didn't think the fishing situation was quite so subtle. The whole area looks pretty flat with the exception of the 18' hole and 17' cut that seems to be feeding spot #2. I would guess that the fish have access to deep water in the area, though it's not significantly deeper the fish do have the ability to drop down. I wonder if this is a summer movement pattern that is putting them on these flats? Buck talks about using the steeper shorelines in the colder part of the season and the more flatter structures as the season and water warms. What are your thoughts? Do you catch the fish here early/late in the season? The map gives a good overview of what's going on.

Jim

[John Bales]

Jim, I mentioned that not many would give either spot a second look if we went by the guidelines. I actually found spot #1 by catching a bass on the troll about ten years ago and went to the cast and have been catching them there ever since. Spot 2 may not hold up. There are good breaks there in the form of tall coontail and they are really grouped up right now but will just have to keep checking it out to see how long they stay. Last year I caught the biggest pike I have seen in 30 years making a straight line pass on the tip of spot 1. I do not catch the fish on either spot early but catch them on spot 1 on blade baits pretty late in the year. Spot 1 they show up about two weeks after the spawn and as the summer gets here, it just gets better. Spot 1 has the bigger fish show up now and then but have only got one fish over 4lbs on spot 2. Most fish on spot 2 are 15-17 inch fish and a hand full of 18 inchers. I'm not complaining. Will be out there in the morning if the weather lets me. John

[brett]

Goooood stuff here. Diggin the wingtips Jim. And the bass.

[Scott Duff]

John, That side view tells quite a story!!! Yours too, Jim. Nice LM

[Fran Myers]

I think that it's pretty clear that there are two separate groups of fish. The deepwater fish that we have spent most of the time studying. But there is a certainly a group of fish that live in the weeds.

With the amount of reading we have all done I think its pretty clear that Mr Perry knew this. Little clues like a heavy spinner on a cane pole into an opening in thick weed mats and others. Now did Mr Perry get into all the different technical BS that the pro's are doing - no, of course not.

But after my struggle to get good at flipping and pitching and 500 other techniques the pro's talk about...it's pretty clear that pursuing the deep water fish is easier when you think of dealing with weeds. I think the uninformed get tied into the differences in these shallow water techniques yet they are really fairly close to the same except for lures, lines, or other equipment. Sponsorship's cause the tilt towards these directions.

Some of the biggest issues that I have picked up is that in general, spoonpluggers tend to be pretty set in cheaper rods, reels, and lines. One of the hardest things that I had to come to grips with is that there is definitely an equipment
issue. Want to do certain techniques? Then you'll need very specific equipment and you might need to spend some significant money. You wont be going to Walmart and buying UglyStiks or the cheapest 50 pound mono.

I had a friend spend 6 months with me and he was a Professional Bass fisherman. He struggled to teach me pitching, flipping, and numerous other techniques. Plus I gave him a budget so he could get me the proper equipment. I have fished with John MANY times so he could teach me some of these techniques. You can't imagine how frustrated I was when after buying all the rods, reels, lines, and lures John suggested then finally get on his boat to hear - 'now you won't feel them hit' UGH!!! But I am here to tell you that if you get the right equipment, you will infact feel the smallest bites. Finding that equipment is so much more than finding a Medium heavy fast tip rod...it's as close to black magic as I have ever experienced and I have no feel for it.

I think the biggest big catches will come from the deep. But those catches can be quite difficult and not regular. Sometimes you need to get into the weeds to find those fish. All around - to increase your catch you need to do both styles. The trick is - It's all Spoonplugging. Depth, Speed, and structure....

[Steve Craig]

""I think the biggest big catches will come from the deep. But those catches can be quite difficult and not regular.""

I have to agree 100%. Today, this is even MORE the case. More difficult due to clearer water, and deeper contact points, which equals deeper sanctuary's. Buck sure knew how important a good water color was.
The best one I have out here is maybe 6 feet! Most are clearer.
Just goes to show what He taught us that fishing usually is bad , then gets worse!

Buck told me one time while he was visiting here in AZ., that he thought Lake Havasu had the worst color of any lake he ever fished.
"drinking water" he said.
He told me that if I ever fished it to go to the dam area. What!!!!??? I said? Just the opposite of what the book teaches.
This particular lake is strange in that the best water color is TOWARDS the dam!
If you look on a map, you will see that the Bill Willams River empties into the lake near the dam. The runoff there produces about a 3-6 foot color. The main lake , you can see a quarter in 30+ feet of water.
Just one of those caviots that goes against what the book teaches.

[Duplex]

John,

One more question regarding your map. Do the breaklines outlining the flats break sharply to the deeper water or are they more rounded and subtle? Is it a quick break from 13'-18' on spot #1 and 15'-17' on spot #2?

Jim

[John Bales]

No Jim, It's all really flat. One interesting thing. Every day when I leave the ramp and idle out to the good stuff, I have noticed that everywhere there is a change in a type of weed, it is directly related to a very small breakline usually a foot or less in depth. The fish are actually related to those slight changes in depth and or the weed changes or both. John

[charliesm48]

Great information, John, and thanks to all who contributed to the conversation. It clearly answers why I catch more pike then bass. Thank you for sharing what took a lot of hard work and adaptability to achieve. The map was very helpful.

[Scott Duff]

Looking at the side-view and just the 18’ hole, thinking the bass should be scattered all around the breakine marked in orange. With a small change in depth the end of the weeds will be kind of messy past the tall weeds, but still useful. Bass would be scattered “here and there” in this stretch at times, mainly at the tall weedline, and by any clumps or different weeds. Good place to check anytime. But the sharper break where it’s marked “thickest coontail” is interesting. Here, there should be some sand/shells (harder, somewhat cleaner, not too mossy) by that sharper break. The coontail will grow tall and thick despite small depth change, whereas the shorter weeds in the drawing could be narrow a strip, like walking across a sidewalk. (Elsewhere those short weeds could be like your driveway, or your back yard). But here at the sharper break, thick and tall coontail with deeper short weeds at the break, then a quick taper short weed and possibly a finger (pike) to clean bottom (guessing no deeper weeds?). In casting drop shot at the tall coontail, with boat fairly close, count down and feel the tall matted weeds with the pencil weight, then gently ease the bait down the drop (maybe several feet in that step). The meeting between the tall and short weeds here is a base breakline, and the bigger bass should be there, right next to the “deeper” water. It’s a out of the way, pinpoint spot, has a good break to relate, and the pike have their own spot separate from the tall weeds which suits them just fine. Bass can always tuck into the weeds for safety, so no problem. Chances are if you make a long cast here when they are active you might get bit off, so stay close. Might make a cast or three inside the coontail, too. A quick 1-2 trolling passes using a short line 700 on wire would check for any pike, after you catch your bass. All that activity will get their attention Anyway, my two cents.

[peh@007]

John, I know I am getting a bit off the drop shotting subject, but my curiosity got at me.
On your map I believe I see a bar adjacent to spot #1 that seems to be connected to deep water.
And I also see a hump between 34 and 25 feet of water with saddle between #2 and the hump.
Am I correct or is it because the map is hand drawn and there is a big flat area between them?

[John Bales]

Yes you do. The saddle between spot 2 and the hump is 15 ft deep with scattered weeds and does not get the good bass ever but plenty of smaller fish. The one side of the hump( the corner closest to the 34 ft hole) was my money spot all spring but for some reason took a big dump come summer. Good eye. John

[Scott Duff]

John, Can you comment on how you look at a weedline configured like this? I noticed on your map there is only a 2 foot depth range in the side view 15’-17’ to describe this weedy fishing situation at #1 and #2. You seem to really narrow it down. It would be normal for this lake to seem like just a big mess, hard to troll, no bottom to bump, weeds vs. clean bottom poorly defined, summer structures a long way from deepest holes, etc. It would be easy come up empty and confused trying to cast it. My story above could be very different from what I’d find there, maybe a lot, it’s just based on things experienced over a limited time. I’d need to be prepared to keep an open mind on the water, and go with what’s happening with the weeds found (Question) related to the bottom features. Weeds change every season and throughout the year. Scott

[John Bales]

Scott, Your right. You cannot bump. No hard bottom with the exception of the north shore where you can touch a little and not pick up junk. Lakes change, especially when the weed sprayers show up. You never know what they are going to do. If they don't nuke the hell out of it, not such a big change but one thing you can rely on is that the fish are not going to hang around where things are changing and especially when the change is fast. First of all, it is still mostly looking at the features that are available to the fish. Another thing that has changed here is the introduction of the northern pike which were never here. My next statement makes me feel old. Denny and I fished here when we were in our 20's and it was one of the best bass lakes we ever fished bar none. The weedline was composed of cabbage and coontail and there was a thick rim all around the drop off from about 5 feet to about 12-14. The north shore had a little finger which was located right next to the deepest water in the lake and that spot was the best spot in the lake. Since the total week kill in 2005, I have not caught a single adult bass from that spot. It is now where the biggest northern pike reside and since the weedline in that area is not thick or wide enough, the bass just do not use it. I had no idea when I put the pike in here that they would spawn so well and grow so big. I put them in here because after they killed the weeds, I could no longer catch any adult bass here for many years. My idea was hoping that the northerns would eat some of the smaller bass and some would be able to grow up. I think that's what happened plus my transferring a couple hundred adult bass from other lakes in the late fall certainly helped. This is an illegal move but I was pretty sure that with no help at all, I would never see any improvement with the time I had left if nothing was done. Anyways...…….. I have seen this place go from awesome to garbage and now it is better but certainly not the bass we once had. And now the northerns dominate the best spots so the bass have to take what works for them to survive. Yesterday we had one pike eat one of our bass on the way in and another bass jumped and a northern jumped out of the water to try and eat that hooked fish so I am not exaggerating when I say it is now a rough life for the bass or any other smaller fish in the lake.
One person mentioned that Buck says that in the early part of the season the fish use the shorter routes and in the summer they use the flatter areas. The flatter areas away from the northerns are what the bass are using right now. 8-10 feet of water is a long way from both spots where we are catching them. The key spots that we would normally look at as the best spots are not producing the bass because the northerns are dominating those spots. I think a 4 pounder or bigger is safe but not the smaller ones.
The whole end of the lake I am fishing has short weeds all the way to the bottom so it can get confusing when trying to follow the base of the weedline. The key to finding the size and shapes of the areas you are looking at is to find the area where one type of weed meet another. In my lake, there is a type of weed that mats on the bottom that is about two feet thick. Once you find the edge of that, you will find another type weed starts which is usually a lot taller, like in 15-16 feet of water, it may come up to 8 feet. Obviously there has to be a bottom condition change for that to happen or a slight breakline at that spot also. The key is not to follow that deep tall stuff but to follow the type of weed that is 2 ft tall and that will give you the size and shape. The bass are actually on that edge and the pike are more on the outside. To the fish it's like a wall that separates them but I am sure it's not always the case. The one spot is more of a point. The other spot is on an inside turn of a point which is also the start of a giant flat bay and at this spot is several tall patches of coontail with an open spot about 40 feet inside of those tall weeds. I spot lock at 16 feet and the open area is 15 feet deep. Again, ten feet of water is a long way from this area also. One benefit I have is to fish my home lake often which helps. When these spots no longer offer the fish what they need, seasonally or stability, they will move one way or another but they will always chose something to stop on that offers them what they need at that time of the year. When the ice comes off next year, those fish on spot 1 will have followed the edge of the weedline towards that 18 ft hole at the top of the page and be ready to move to the structure in that area of the lake. They are there till post spawn and then move back out the the big flat area for the rest of the summer and into the fall. If my lake had a dark yellow green water color with a 2 ft weedline, I wouldn't have to put up with these weedline fish and it might be a lot easier with less things to consider but all lakes are different. In all of these years, we have never caught the bass out in the holes deep. They just don't get out there. On another lake, it can happen but not this one. One thing a person should not take from this is that the bass do this in all lakes. This is only one fishing situation. It is not a lake that you would look to fish as a spoonplugger but it is my home lake so I am stuck here to figure it out. How lucky we are to have found spoonplugging and have a goal to figure out what makes a fish tick in any lake we may go to. Hope this helps. John