The drop shot
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John Bales
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The drop shot
I was introduced to the drop shot with more meaning when I got to join Brett and Spence Petros on Lake Geneva. After that day, I brought the drop shot into my fishing a lot more starting post spawn and going all summer long. It has become one of my go to speed controls because of what? Think of it in this way. What do fish do in a 24 hour period? What is their activity during that time? How many minutes in a 24 hour day do you think a bass might be active and feeding on structure? What do you think, an hour maybe of that 24 hour period? What do you suppose they are doing the rest of that time period? What does Mr. Perry say about general fishing? For most of the time fishing is bad and then it gets worse. One other statement he makes is if you put a lure in front of a fish's face at zero speed , he might suck it in. How do you do that consistently when a drop shot is not something you can cover much water with like you can on the troll. Its like when Buck talked about the guy who back trolls a minnow pretty deep for walleye. This fisherman has the right depth and speed control but he had better know his structures and know exactly where to do this slow speed control. Same thing with the drop shot or any method of slow speed control. You need to know where to make the cast. This takes the same discipline that normal trolling and interpretation of your structures so it should be pretty easy to take up a casting position to check out the slower speeds once the faster trolling speeds are checked in the heat of the summer. Your mapping first is always what sets up how you make your catch no matter how it is done. I am not saying that the drop shot is a magic lure. Its more like the fisherman most of the time does not use this slower speed control before they move to the nest fishing area. We have gotten used to casting a spoonplug if you can and then throwing a blade bait and maybe a jig and then pulling up stakes and moving on. Why would a peraon throw a 1/2 ounce blade bait and make 5-6 casts and then change to a 1/2 oz jig and do the same mechanical moves wit a jig where there is not much difference in the two speed controls, just the profile of the lure. Speed is the key. Don't move the jig the same way you did the blade bait. You already did the big jumps with the blade, slow it down a bit with the jig, drag it on your final cast and let it sit between jumps. The drop shot can be even a slower speed. I'm not talking about lures now, I am talking about speeds. The ones that make the fish take the lures. Most people do not take just a little more time when casting an area to check out the little bit slower speeds. If you know where they are when they move close to a structure, it doesn't matter how deep, take one more step to slow it down before you move. For most of the time, the fish are not active and moving. The weather conditions are not ideal for most of the time. The fact that the fish are only active about 1/24th of a day or less puts the odds in our favor that just maybe we can stick a lure in front of a fish and make him take during those times that the fishing is so bad. I am not telling anyone to forget the basics of spoonplugging but to add this to what they already know and it will make you better. John
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Duplex
Re: The drop shot
John,
It is amazing to first check out the fast speeds and think they're not going then switch to a much slower speed, like the drop shot, and you catch them one after another. If you're not checking your speeds, on the cast AND the troll, you haven't fished the structure properly. Good post.
JIm
It is amazing to first check out the fast speeds and think they're not going then switch to a much slower speed, like the drop shot, and you catch them one after another. If you're not checking your speeds, on the cast AND the troll, you haven't fished the structure properly. Good post.
JIm
Last edited by Duplex on Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Bales
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Re: The drop shot
On another subject, Do you think that all fish make their home somewhere around the deepest water in the lake or the deepest water in the area and once or twice a day they get active and may move towards the shallows? Could there be situations where this does not happen? What do you think? John
Re: The drop shot
John; 3 situations come to mind. The first is when there is not enough depth to provide a sanctuary. the second is where the deeper water is an unsafe environment due to a large amount of big predators. The third is the weedline reaches a good depth and the water past that does not increase a whole lot, so the weeds allow cover for a home to offset the conditions. The fish could then get active in the weeds but don't necessarily move shallower. Bill.
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John Bales
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Re: The drop shot
Bill, Not sure anyone can do better than those answers. Let's see what else trickles in. Great answers. John
Re: The drop shot
In a eutrophic lake where the deepest water is below the thermocline and is anoxic.
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John Bales
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Re: The drop shot
Void of oxygen would have done it. I had to look it up Jim. 
And yes that would be true also. John
And yes that would be true also. JohnRe: The drop shot
Agree John. Sorry 'bout that.
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John Bales
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Re: The drop shot
Thought there might be a little more interest but that's ok. It doesn't matter if the fish start out in the deepest water or the deepest water in the area or make their home in the weeds. When we do our homework either before or after we get on the water, we must assume that they do start out near the sanctuary depth (if available) and may migrate towards structure . Buck said when we do catch a fish, it will be on some kind of break or breakline associated with your structure. If we get on the water often, spend our time trolling and casting the places that we interpret to be the best areas we have a chance to catch a fish, we will catch the fish and the catching of the fish is what we are after. In some places where there are weeds below 12-20 feet and the musky and northerns are there in numbers and size, the bass have no choice but to take up home away from the dragons. If you and I want the bass in these places, we must spend a lot of time casting in and around the weeds in order to catch them. Learning what bass do in the weedy lakes is a whole new ball game. Seasonally, it may start out in and around the outside weedline and into the deeper holes, then the outside weedline and some actually on top of the flats and then the inside weedline and then eventually they will work their way back to near the outside weedline and then in the late fall, some may stay in the weeds and some will be on the deeper breaklines where you can get them trolling again. A lot of the time when working in and around the weeds, casting is better then trolling. You should ask that question when you catch 30 northerns and no bass as to not only why I am not catching the bass but where might they be. Our spoonpluggers are known as lousy casters because they have so much success on the troll that they just do not take the time to do much casting. When you become a pretty good troller , you can catch a fish any way you want. Mr. Perry said once we find the spots, we can do a pretty good job of catching the fish by casting alone. There is no better feeling then knowing a spot, spot locking on it or put the anchor down and make the right cast and catch a crap load of fish from that one spot. The work you have done up to that point to find that spot makes the catches you make, either loading the boat on some days to just a few on other days very satisfying. You know the weather and water conditions effect the fish and being able to relate your catches to the conditions is the real enjoyment. The key is doing your homework and being there when the fish move. Credit for any success I have goes to Mr. Perry and one guy who taught me very early in my life how hard we need to work at this to see any improvement. I have said this before. I was 18 years old and the first time I got in Denny Coulardot's boat, he showed me how to fish a jig on the outside weedline, showed me how to use line sights and taught me how to follow the outside weedline to find any fishing spot and the shape of any structure. For me, that kept me from ever being lost on the water. I am very lucky to have him for a friend. At 76 years of age, the guy fishes more than I do. John
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Scott Duff
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Re: The drop shot
Really good article, John. The Drop-shot has been a game-changer for me for checking the deep weedlines for bass. For my lightweight boat set-up (Troller) it's just very efficient. The weight gets right to the bottom and stays there yet the bait remains active and visible to the fish. Because of the skinny profile and small line diameter I avoid the line drag problem that "can" cause loss of control when casting a jig from a moving boat. The result: 1) I am able to quickly position and re-position the boat while controlling each cast, 2) a high percentage of hook-ups and fish boated. Yes, it's a very slow lure speed, but as John indicated, most of the day that speed [surprisingly] is in the ballpark. It's also been effective at locating groups of fish tucked into confined pockets and slots in the weeds. Jim: I agree, there are more catchable fish swimming around the "spots" than we thought. Bill: I think you nailed it as to the reasons they would be there. Thanks John and Brett for getting this across.
What about Spoonplugging procedures? The other day I was watching Mr. Perry's video "Trolling a Deep Weedline" (Buck live on the water-how cool is that?). Most here have probably seen that video (posted on this website). He sets up the whole thing: On-the-water mapping of the Base Breakline (base weedline, contact points), placing markers on the crooks, turn-outs, and fingers to set up his trolling pass (wire line, larger spoonplug on short line), plus line sights. Imagine if Mr. Perry had kept this video going with Part 2-"Casting a Deep Weedline"? I'm guessing he would have left those big Tide markers on the same exact spots, to show us the features to go back to, and cast. To John’s point, Spoonplugging procedures including trolling passes made with/without a lure should give us the structure's size, shape, location of main contact point, which direction along the weedline the fish might go, etc. The video shows a crooked breakline and a cove, but it could be a big weedy bar, a hump/saddle, isolated deep hole, etc. It would be the same procedures, using the bottom as the guide and relate that to the weeds. You could choose to cast one or more spots based on the trolling, or check them all, or even cast the entire breakline if it's not too long. Far from being a “slow” way to fish, for the Spoonplugger, this slow speed control can teach you a lot about the details of a structure, and actually be a fast way to check speeds on known spots. If you’re right on a spot and they want it slow, you will know it right away! Scott
What about Spoonplugging procedures? The other day I was watching Mr. Perry's video "Trolling a Deep Weedline" (Buck live on the water-how cool is that?). Most here have probably seen that video (posted on this website). He sets up the whole thing: On-the-water mapping of the Base Breakline (base weedline, contact points), placing markers on the crooks, turn-outs, and fingers to set up his trolling pass (wire line, larger spoonplug on short line), plus line sights. Imagine if Mr. Perry had kept this video going with Part 2-"Casting a Deep Weedline"? I'm guessing he would have left those big Tide markers on the same exact spots, to show us the features to go back to, and cast. To John’s point, Spoonplugging procedures including trolling passes made with/without a lure should give us the structure's size, shape, location of main contact point, which direction along the weedline the fish might go, etc. The video shows a crooked breakline and a cove, but it could be a big weedy bar, a hump/saddle, isolated deep hole, etc. It would be the same procedures, using the bottom as the guide and relate that to the weeds. You could choose to cast one or more spots based on the trolling, or check them all, or even cast the entire breakline if it's not too long. Far from being a “slow” way to fish, for the Spoonplugger, this slow speed control can teach you a lot about the details of a structure, and actually be a fast way to check speeds on known spots. If you’re right on a spot and they want it slow, you will know it right away! Scott
Last edited by Scott Duff on Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Steve Craig
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Re: The drop shot
Absolutely this happens.
Super clear water, unstable weather come to mind. They get ACTIVE, but dont move or migrate.
The reason the Drop shot works so well.
But a fellow really needs to know where that Contact Point is for sure, to put that little lure right in their face.
It also happens to us every fall in Canada. Trolling breaklines and contours in 45 to 65 feet of water, using 3-way rigs, and when you put that lure right on the money, they hit the trailer almost every time. When they become ACTIVE, then the big lure gets hit hard.
Just my 2 cents.
Super clear water, unstable weather come to mind. They get ACTIVE, but dont move or migrate.
The reason the Drop shot works so well.
But a fellow really needs to know where that Contact Point is for sure, to put that little lure right in their face.
It also happens to us every fall in Canada. Trolling breaklines and contours in 45 to 65 feet of water, using 3-way rigs, and when you put that lure right on the money, they hit the trailer almost every time. When they become ACTIVE, then the big lure gets hit hard.
Just my 2 cents.
Religion is a guy in church, thinking about fishing.
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
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Duplex
Re: The drop shot
John,
As to your initial question, do bass make their home in the deepest water in the lake or deepest in the area, it will certainly depend on the size of the lake. Meaning a smaller body of water might have only one deep hole that will concentrate the fish. A larger body of water would most definitely contain more areas of deep water. A Spoonplugger can easily make that determination by studying a contour map AND creating a Spoonplugger map to confirm their interpretation.
As you noted, Spoonpluggers have a reputation as lousy casters because trolling is so effective. But as Buck noted, it's not a question of whether you prefer trolling or whether you prefer to cast, you must be able to do both if you expect to make contact with the fish. I was talking with an experienced Spoonplugger the other day and he was telling me about catching 41 northerns on the troll but no bass. He didn't anchor. He didn't cast. The bass are there but you've got to be much more precise in your presentation. Northerns and muskie will follow the lure for quite a distance. Bass will not. Another reason he's not catching the bass is because of all the northern pike in the area.
Buck says, when fish become active, ALL the fish in the lake become active. If that's the case, then those bass are being missed. Either they're deeper than he's fishing or they're shallower but they are not mingled in with the pike. If they're deeper they might be active in relation to the deepest water in the lake/area. If shallower and weeds are present, you'll need to probe the weeds which is more effectively done on the cast. Either way, continuing to do the same thing over and over again, trolling, and expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.
The waters I've been fishing as of late, have been shallow: ponds and the river. The effects of the weather are more pronounced than in a big lake because they don't have any escape or relief from the changes. There's no depth. They become inactive and are reluctant to chase any lure. Slower presentations like the drop shot, tube, and jig & pig can be effective but you have to put it right in their face. Additionally, another fisherman using live bait has been out fishing me at those times.
Let me ask you this, you describe getting into large numbers of bass from a casting position on two different spots. How many northerns have you contacted while catching those bass? If you haven't, why not? Where are they?
Jim
As to your initial question, do bass make their home in the deepest water in the lake or deepest in the area, it will certainly depend on the size of the lake. Meaning a smaller body of water might have only one deep hole that will concentrate the fish. A larger body of water would most definitely contain more areas of deep water. A Spoonplugger can easily make that determination by studying a contour map AND creating a Spoonplugger map to confirm their interpretation.
As you noted, Spoonpluggers have a reputation as lousy casters because trolling is so effective. But as Buck noted, it's not a question of whether you prefer trolling or whether you prefer to cast, you must be able to do both if you expect to make contact with the fish. I was talking with an experienced Spoonplugger the other day and he was telling me about catching 41 northerns on the troll but no bass. He didn't anchor. He didn't cast. The bass are there but you've got to be much more precise in your presentation. Northerns and muskie will follow the lure for quite a distance. Bass will not. Another reason he's not catching the bass is because of all the northern pike in the area.
Buck says, when fish become active, ALL the fish in the lake become active. If that's the case, then those bass are being missed. Either they're deeper than he's fishing or they're shallower but they are not mingled in with the pike. If they're deeper they might be active in relation to the deepest water in the lake/area. If shallower and weeds are present, you'll need to probe the weeds which is more effectively done on the cast. Either way, continuing to do the same thing over and over again, trolling, and expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.
The waters I've been fishing as of late, have been shallow: ponds and the river. The effects of the weather are more pronounced than in a big lake because they don't have any escape or relief from the changes. There's no depth. They become inactive and are reluctant to chase any lure. Slower presentations like the drop shot, tube, and jig & pig can be effective but you have to put it right in their face. Additionally, another fisherman using live bait has been out fishing me at those times.
Let me ask you this, you describe getting into large numbers of bass from a casting position on two different spots. How many northerns have you contacted while catching those bass? If you haven't, why not? Where are they?
Jim
Last edited by Duplex on Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Bales
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Re: The drop shot
Now and then the northerns do show up with the bass. One day I had a chatterbait on one rod, drop shot on another and a jig on the third rod. My three go to speed controls for this situation. At the end of one of the good movements , I had gotten bit off and had to re rig every one of my rods. I since started putting a piece of 50lb mono on my chatterbait rod and have caught several big northerns that would have taken my lure if not for the leader. The bass for me is the fish I want to catch. The bass is the fish that Mr. Perry based all of our guidelines on. The bass is more likely to kick your butt on a bad condition more than any other species of fish so that is the fish that can teach us the most. Catching the northern is easy and I have seen all of that in my time, although having a big numbers day with a few good ones is a really fun day. It is the bass that is such a great teacher.
Scott is one of the guys who has stepped up his game, opened his mind and is better mechanically and finds more satisfaction these days in his fishing. He is one of the students that I have had that has done something with his investment. Good to see that once in a while.
Jim, When you and I drop shotted Duck Lake, I had a question to you about the guy who might spend all day trolling this lake. How many bass do you suppose a troller would catch and how perfect a pass would that person have to make to come close to the bass using the weedline? What about he guy fishing for northerns that is free running 3 feet off the bottom 10 feet from the base of the weedline? How many bass will he catch? And then again, there are a lot of spoonpluggers out there that are just as happy as they can be not catching a single bass because they are still catching more and bigger fish than they ever had. This forum is about sharing fishing knowledge. The green book and the home study gives you the basics needed for fishing success. There is a lot more out there to learn. I'm just sharing for those who want that extra that can be learned. Everything that I have learned came from someone else showing me or telling me I need to learn another part of what I can do to catch a fish. I know how lucky I have been to hang around and fish with those that are far better than I was and to learn from them. Guys like Denny Coulardot and Frank Hamill. To me, Denny is one of the greatest spoonpluggers on the face of the earth and the nicest guy you will ever meet. Hell, he is 76 and fishes more than I do. That guy was one of the hardest fisherman I ever fished with and instilled in me how much effort was needed for success. I have said this before. I was 18 and he was 28 when I got in his boat. We were both just starting to read and learn from the green book. That first day, he taught me how to jig fish the weedline and he explained why he made every single cast. Including counting down each and every cast and why he did that. He taught me what a shoreline sighting was that day and how to get one. That same day he taught me how to follow the base of the weedline and find all of the best fingers and contact points on the best structures. From that day forward, I was never lost.
Terry always said that he came along at the right time when there were lots of big bass. I came along right behind him and Buck told me to fish these same lakes and they were loaded with big bass. A great population of fish will tell you when you are doing things the right way and there were several of them that were loaded. If you move time forward 30-40 years, things have changed. Every single one of those great lakes have changed in some way or have been destroyed by the weed sprayers. It is not the same for sure. Not a one of those lakes are on my list to fish even though they are less then an hour away. I know what they are and I would not go out of my way to fish them. So here we are with what is left. So we fish the few that have been left alone and do the best we can to try and catch a fish. For this reason it is even more important that we get better if we want to catch any fish at all and if you have a good one, cherish it because man will come along and mess it up. Ask Brett what happened to his lake. He is seeing the worst that can happen when those in control think they know what the lakes need. John
Scott is one of the guys who has stepped up his game, opened his mind and is better mechanically and finds more satisfaction these days in his fishing. He is one of the students that I have had that has done something with his investment. Good to see that once in a while.
Jim, When you and I drop shotted Duck Lake, I had a question to you about the guy who might spend all day trolling this lake. How many bass do you suppose a troller would catch and how perfect a pass would that person have to make to come close to the bass using the weedline? What about he guy fishing for northerns that is free running 3 feet off the bottom 10 feet from the base of the weedline? How many bass will he catch? And then again, there are a lot of spoonpluggers out there that are just as happy as they can be not catching a single bass because they are still catching more and bigger fish than they ever had. This forum is about sharing fishing knowledge. The green book and the home study gives you the basics needed for fishing success. There is a lot more out there to learn. I'm just sharing for those who want that extra that can be learned. Everything that I have learned came from someone else showing me or telling me I need to learn another part of what I can do to catch a fish. I know how lucky I have been to hang around and fish with those that are far better than I was and to learn from them. Guys like Denny Coulardot and Frank Hamill. To me, Denny is one of the greatest spoonpluggers on the face of the earth and the nicest guy you will ever meet. Hell, he is 76 and fishes more than I do. That guy was one of the hardest fisherman I ever fished with and instilled in me how much effort was needed for success. I have said this before. I was 18 and he was 28 when I got in his boat. We were both just starting to read and learn from the green book. That first day, he taught me how to jig fish the weedline and he explained why he made every single cast. Including counting down each and every cast and why he did that. He taught me what a shoreline sighting was that day and how to get one. That same day he taught me how to follow the base of the weedline and find all of the best fingers and contact points on the best structures. From that day forward, I was never lost.
Terry always said that he came along at the right time when there were lots of big bass. I came along right behind him and Buck told me to fish these same lakes and they were loaded with big bass. A great population of fish will tell you when you are doing things the right way and there were several of them that were loaded. If you move time forward 30-40 years, things have changed. Every single one of those great lakes have changed in some way or have been destroyed by the weed sprayers. It is not the same for sure. Not a one of those lakes are on my list to fish even though they are less then an hour away. I know what they are and I would not go out of my way to fish them. So here we are with what is left. So we fish the few that have been left alone and do the best we can to try and catch a fish. For this reason it is even more important that we get better if we want to catch any fish at all and if you have a good one, cherish it because man will come along and mess it up. Ask Brett what happened to his lake. He is seeing the worst that can happen when those in control think they know what the lakes need. John
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Duplex
Re: The drop shot
John,
I still can't visualize the 2 spots where you're taking the bass. How about a Spoonplugger map?
Went to the pond today and picked off 8 bass. The two biggest were 3 and 3 1/2 lbs. and came from the deepest water. Got 7 on a crankbait and one on a drop shot that hit a 1/4 oz. tube I was using as the weight. The remaining fish were tight to the shoreline/rip rap.
Jim
I still can't visualize the 2 spots where you're taking the bass. How about a Spoonplugger map?
Went to the pond today and picked off 8 bass. The two biggest were 3 and 3 1/2 lbs. and came from the deepest water. Got 7 on a crankbait and one on a drop shot that hit a 1/4 oz. tube I was using as the weight. The remaining fish were tight to the shoreline/rip rap.
Jim
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Last edited by Duplex on Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Bales
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Re: The drop shot
Mr. Duplex wanted a map. Hope this helps. Jim, You are not getting my shorline sightings. John