Buck Perry "Sanctuary Depths"

[site admin]

Buck Perry talking about sanctuary depths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UlydizliDE

[John Bales]

Topic for discussion. Mr. Perry said near the end of that talk that if 30 -35 feet of water was available to the fish and if he did not check to at least that depth , it is not checked. What thoughts go through your mind after that statement? John

[Bink]

I don't fish deep enough

[Steve Craig]

"Topic for discussion. What thoughts go through your mind after that statement? John"

A Spoonplugging Lesson:

I learned a hard lesson several years ago. Early on, I rarely left the shallows. I was fishing a White Sandy water colored lake. While I was continually running the lures and all the while keeping them in position, and really learning how to do so, I wasnt catching many big fish. However......I was catching lots of fish! Just no big ones and absolutely never getting into a casting position.
One day while ordering some lures, Buck answered the phone. What a treat it was for me. the problem was that he knew my lake frontwards and backwards, and he then asked me why I hadnt caught any of the 4-6 pounders that this lake had in it.
When I told him what I was doing, I got a real shock. Some would call it a minor chewing out.
He made that same statement about not fishing deep enough. He then detailed a spot for me to go to and "shoot the works" as he used to say. The very next weekend I went to this exact spot, and it was there just like he said it was.
I worked the structure situation from the shallows to as deep as i could hit. The dropoff was at 22 feet into 31 feet of water.
It certainly was a strange thing running the 200,100,700, and 800 Spoonplugs for the first time.
But that day I caught my first 5 pound LM bass on that spot.
I couldnt wait to call Buck and tell him about it! His first question(after praising my effort) was why didnt I stop and cast!!!!!!
The weather conditions were such that the fish were right there at the drop off, and I had caught one. I just didnt follow the guidelines ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS!
This happened in 1976.

The PROCESS is to "go to the fish" because most of the time he will NOT come to you.
Today, with the clearing waters we have, that Sanctuary Depth can be really deep. Most of the time here in Az., those depths can be 70 feet and more.

While the above was a tough lesson to learn, it was a great one as well.
We for sure can always get better in our fishing,(the more I learn, the more I see there is to learn) that Buck talked about. It is fun to do. It is sometimes hard to do. It can be frustrating too. But there is also a great satisfaction that comes from learning more about the "downstairs".
The "sanctuary depths" are there for us to explore. That is why Buck said that there is more to learn.

Good discussion for sure John.......
I am dead on the water right now as I lost my Impeller on my motor and waiting for a new one to arrive......hopefully before this weekend! Roosevelt and Canyon are calling me!

[jwt]

If, after thoroughly fishing the shallows, fishing the "in between", and no fish are caught, they may be deep, and we should work down to 30' - 35'(or deeper) to check there. That applies not only to conditions after the passing of a cold front, but on an average fishing day with good conditions.

[John Bales]

Steve, Great lesson for you for sure and for all of us. My motor is in the shop also and they have already placed a phone call to the manufacturer and still have not found the problem. I do have faith that they will find the problem and I will not miss out on my fishing time. Back to the thinking. What if the deepest water in lake is 35 feet and the last visable breakline or break that you can see is at 18 feet, do you still go deeper without any guidelines? John

[Steve Craig]

I know what "I" would do.......
But, I will step back and let others tell us what "they" would do.
Come on Brian, Brett, Steve Jr., and others on here.
How do you answer Johns last question?

[Bink]

Depends on a couple things... If I'm only there for one day and not familiar with the lake I wouldn't go past the last break/breakline. If I plan on fishing for a longer period of time and haven't contacted any fish I would start moving deeper but not until I had spent a lot of time working under differnt conditions.

[Team9nine]

Darn it, Steve

For me, the answer would depend on if I'm interpreting John's question correctly. If the last breakline going "downstairs" was at 18' but I could establish/recognize a base breakline in the deepest water where it flattened out, then I'd feel comfortable working that base breakline in the deepest water. If the 18' breakline is just going into a hole down to 35 feet as a slow taper or some such feature without any other definition, then based upon my limited experience in deep water, I personally would not go any further since I'd have no guidelines (I wouldn't know what I don't know). In that case, I'd pick what I felt (interpreted as) the best spot I could identify at the last recognizable breakline and "wait 'em out." The one caveat to this answer is if I was fishing in mid-summer and could identify an "invisible" breakline (such as a thermocline), deeper than the 18' physical breakline, then I'd be comfortable working that deeper "invisible" breakline, but no further.

-Brian

[beckman44]

After checking the feature from the shallows to the 18 ft. break, with no fish contact, I could either stay on the structure and hope the fish move or check deeper. Even though I have no recognizable features from 18 to 35 ft, I think I would strain the water all the way down. I may find a change of bottom or clean spot where the fish are. They could be active there and never move to the 18 ft. break. Bill.

[Steve Craig]

Bingo Bill!!!!!!

Don Dickson told me once that it is OK to Contour Troll the deeper water.
I looked at him and went "wwhhaattt?!!!!"

I believe i remember Buck saying the same thing in one of his presentations at one of the Jamboree's.

Most of the time, as we go deeper, the structures tend to "flatten out" somewhat. Not always the case, but more often than not. Contour trolling those areas are really pretty easy as long as you have learned to do the same thing in the shallows with the smaller size lures.

BUT! And this is a big BUT, we should not spend alot of our time doing this. If we do not find a break of some kind, like Bill stated, then we should get back to that 18 foot spot and wait on the fish.
When I run into a situation like this, I will usually devote 10-15 minutes beyond that 18 foot depth, but no more if I dont see anything.
Many is the time though that I have found a small rock pile, or a shell bed, or like we have out here, an old Mesquite stump with a school of bass just waiting for me to pluck them out.
You look at that school of fish on the Downscan, and you see absolutely nothing, yet there they are , and your lures told you why they are there.
There is a reason Buck called them "talking lures".

[John Bales]

I guess this is all we are going to get. All good answers. Every fishing situation is different and this includes what may exist in the deeper waters we fish. All of my comments are considering we have already checked all of our depths and speeds up to the point of going out beyond the last visable breaks or breaklines and assuming that a thermocline does not exist. It was one(or several) of Mr. Perry's comments that got me checking deeper. He made a comment about the largest musky never coming shallow the whole season except for the spawn. When he shows a school of big bass and then says that the biggest of that group may still be a bit deeper, this should also motivate you to check a little deeper. Our studies plainly state that you may have to go to the fish because they may not come to you. You may not see that movement at 18 feet if you are anchored on that spot and waiting them out. And last he makes the statement that the larger a fish becomes, the more reluctant he is to move towards the shallows. I told of our catch of musky that Deb and I made in 6 days and someone came on here and said that I was tooting my own horn. I didn't lie when I said that we caught and released 70 muskies in those 6 days. All of those fish were caught deeper than the base breakline (28 feet) and the trolling passes were made from side to side from one base breakline on one side to the base on the other side. We caught 6 fish that week over 50 inches and our longest was 53 inches. We went out there because of Mr. Perry's comments and I give him all the credit. The Detroit river is 15-18 miles long and it took a long time to check it out but none of the bottom of that whole river was missed. I lied. There was one area that I could not check at the time but with the JB's it can be done now. There is a tunnell that goes under the river over to Canada. The depth and current was such that I could not get an 800 on wire to stay down at that depth. That was the only area that a lure was not run in and around the whole river. I could have kept this to myself but there are many that would not have enjoyed what we did if I would have kept my mouth shut. Where would we be if Mr. Perry would have kept his mouth shut?
If the area to be checked is too large an area and it is like looking for a needle in a haystack, I leave it alone. Anytime that the deepest water is a narrow slot like area, our chances are much better . I don't care if the lake is in Florida or Indiana, I like it when the deepest water to be checked is not a large area. For us, our chances of doing this will mostly occur in the late fall when the thermocline does not exist or immediately after ice out and in the ice out stage, it would be a casting situation and the area better not be too large.
A deep saddle can be a great area to check when the fish do not make it to the features. Years ago Mr. Perry told me to go out in Muskegon Lake and countour troll and 800 on wire and start out at 35 to 40 feet and he said that this would show me the deeper features to work. I remember like it was yesterday the way that he used his hands to show how the boat should move in and out just like countour trolling the shallows.
Frank Hamill called a narrow section of deep water a bath tub effect. When they are in that position, you got them hemmed in so to speak. I am constantly looking for that situation when looking at maps of all types of lakes. It is difficult for us sometimes to maintain confidence when going out beyond what we are used to fishing but if you spend a little time in these deep water areas when it is called for, it doesn't take catching too many fish before you will carry your depth control without any hesitation. It is part of what we must do to become better. John

[Duplex]

The great thing about this site is the ability to discuss in depth, fishing situations that make us all better; from the novice to the most experienced Spoonplugger. A few years ago I was having success on a structure producing big muskies. The top of the bar crowned at 12’ with a breakline at 20’ dropping into the deepest water at 26’. On this particular day, the weather conditions were post frontal with no fish activity in the area of the crown or at the 20’ breakline. Dropping down to the base was also unproductive so I decided to give the deepest water in the area a few passes. Like Steve, I was only going to give it 15 minutes. If there was no contact with breaks, or fish, I was heading right back to the recognizable features. Within that limited time span, contact was made with a nice muskie. I could not identify the break that was holding the fish, but it was obvious the fish knew it was there.

The base breakline is a feature that is often overlooked but should not be ignored. I had been having some success catching fish at the top of the breakline; as a matter of fact some good fish. Weather conditions however, had been such that only small stragglers were being caught on the shallower breakline. I knew the big fish were in the area so I dropped down to the base and, in just a short time, a couple of the bigger fish were contacted. Other fishermen in the area continued to pound the shallows fruitlessly. It’s just as Buck says, “the home of the fish is deep water.” Don’t pass it up.

Jim