Movement Times

[Ramrod25]

New Spoonplugger here. I have read the home study course twice now - ordered an assortment of spoonplugs - have donated several to the lake so far, but no fish.

My question has to do with the subject of movements. The lesson material, and the writing on this site seems to indicate that the fish will move from their sanctuary perhaps twice per day. When they are in their sanctuary, they are dormant and in a "non-chasing" mood. Sounds like my wife - but that is another subject for another time.

How can one tell when a movement will occur? I am of the impression that if a movement occurred at 12:30pm and I get to go fishing at 5:30 after work, I am just wasting my time as far as catching fish is concerned. I may learn more about mapping and boat control, but the catchable fish are just not there.

So - do I now rig up a metal wire rig and start trolling down at 40 feet - or am I just out of luck that day??

While I really enjoy just being out any day on the water, my goal here is to catch a fish. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm building a new house and I have lots of other stuff to do, so I would like to target in on the best times to go fishing.

Any thoughts??

Regards
Rodney Wren
Fort Towson, Oklahoma
580-5113-8153

[Fran Myers]

Rodney WELCOME!
First before you do too much, reread the seasonal movements section again. Seasonally the fish are going to be in the side feeder creeks. If you are fishing in the main channels then you're in the wrong areas.
Second, there will generally be some fish around most of the time. The 2 movements that your reading about are the movements of the main body of the fish. Sometimes (more often than I would like to think) there are NO movements in a day.

I understand the frustration of no fish and losing a Spoonplug. Just doesn't seem fair. However there are some things that you need to do first before you tie on the the wire and go to 40 feet. You need to learn to just run a Spoonplug correctly and you can be in some really tough areas depending on where you go on the reservoirs. Think "Go to the HEADWATERS". You will have better water color and you will have more broader and manageable structures. The closer to the dam the sharper structures and deeper the water. Can be more than your ready for.

Then once you are in the headwaters or fishing the rip rap by a causeway, take out the first 4 sizes of the Spoonplugs. 500, 400, 250, 200. Personally I would start with a 400. That darn 500 can be a tough one to get to work! Put out 30 to 60 feet of line and drive the boat 4 to 6 feet of water. When the lure starts bumping drive the boat out to deeper water. When the lure stops bumping, drive the boat towards the shallower water. Steer the boat like a snake swims, undulate back and forth gently.

A word about speed...
This time of year, try a speed where the lures are just getting there wiggle. You don't want to be fast this time of year. And you are going to want to be fairly shallow. 10 feet or less if possible.

Let me know where your fishing and I will look at the maps and see if I can point you in an area you might want to start.
Fran

[Steve Craig]

Welcome Ramrod25,
Fran gave you some very good advice.
Dont try to do too much, too fast.

Practice trolling the shallows, then casting the shallows.
Then after learning to do this, learn to troll the deep and then cast the deep.
It is your lures that will show you what,when,where,why, and how.
Your lures will show you when a movement is taking place.

This time of year can be somewhat difficult for a new Spoonplugger.
You and I must look at the lake from a seasonal point of view.
We may actually be fishing, "where they aint".

In your area, the bass may be in a spawning situation right now. Or they could also be pre or post-spawn as well. Not knowing your lake type, it is hard to advise you where to begin right now.

If you are fishing a lowland res., look for the good long summertime structures(bars), then look for the closest cove with a feeder in it to that bar. Start by trolling the shallows in and around that cove, and working the short bars at the entrance to the cove, and all the way up into the cove.

If however you are on a big Flatlander, pretty much the same thing applies working the cove area and it's short entrance bars, but your feeder creek may be emptying into the main lake channel many hundreds of yards away from the cove entrance. Under a cold front condition, the fish "may" be all the way out at the Delta humps at the main lake channel, or they may be someplace in between the delta humps and the cove bars along the feeder creek channel.

As Fran suggested, reread the book about seasonal movements of fish, and also determine the lake type you are fishing.
One thing is for certain........Mr Perry said the fish are either in the shallows, the deep, or they are somewhere in between. He also said that " most of the time, most of the water contains no fish".
By starting in the shallows with the smaller tools, and straining the water out to as deep as we know how to ,"at this time", you will find the fish.
The fish will show you when they are moving as long as you and I keep our lure in position and strain the water.
After the post-spawn, go back to the nice long summertime bars and shoot the works in presentation of your lures. Learning how to troll the shallows and then troll the deep.
The fish will come.

then...........go back and reread the material. This is a must. Much of the material will not make sense to you until you 'experience' it on the water.
The better Spoonpluggers on here have read and reread the material, literally hundreds and hundreds of times. this is how we continue to get better and how our knowledge of the situations we find gets better and better.
And it is why Mr. Perry said that "knowledge is the key".
Keep at it and dont get discouraged. Endeavor to perservere.
Steve

[jwt]

Ramrod25, welcome to the forum and to Spoonplugging. You've made the right choice in both cases. There is a very good, experienced Spoonplugger that live in Idabel, OK, which I believe is not far from you. His name is Bob Rives. He's listed in the National Spoonplugger directory. If you don't have it, you really should join the National. There's a great deal of information in the National Spoonplugger newsletter from the top Spoonpluggers in the country. Here's the URL http://www.nsoa.info/ In the meanwhile, if you don't have the directory, let me know and I'll drop Bob a note and have him get in touch with you. He's an excellent teacher and you can learn a lot from him.

[whopper Stopper]

Welcome Ramrod25, Listen, Iv been spoonplugging since 97. I have a long way to go, and Iv fished most of my life,,,but it takes time. We make it harder than what it is. Dont even think wire line when starting out. Put that out of you mind for now. Dont rush it. It comes with time. Like these guys have told you, fish the the first 3 size spoonplugs. The 4th size is good for tight turns when you cant let out lets say 2 or 3 colors of line (90ft) on the 3rd size to get the maxium depth out of it. The deal is to learn to first fish the shallows 0-10 ft. of depth. Dont be concerned with the one or two movements. Remember the shallows will almost always have straggler fish. The word straggler does NOT always mean SMALL fish, especially in the spring. It just means that your fishing at the SCATTERPOINT where the fish are not going to be grouped in a tight school.
My best advice is to fish UP the lake where you normally will find the best DINGY water color. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. (This makes all the difference in the world) in coming or not coming in contact with fish. This water color allows these fish to move shallow due to low light pinatration. Dont take this lightly. We cant do anything about the weather other than pick the best days that you can, that is,,,stable weather,, but most of the time we DO have a choice to find better water color. Its all about low light. As far as trolling goes. Turn you fish finder off in the shallows, Or at least, dont have your head buried in that thing. It is a good aid but your best to let your lures tell you what depth your in. Learn to FEEL what that spoonplug is telegraphing to you. Hard or soft bottom etc. Vary your speeds in the shallows, check it out and let the fish tell YOU what is best. DONT DIG AND PLOW the bottom. Just TIP the bottom once in a while. Remember that in the shallows 0-10 ft. the fish can be anywhere from the surface to the bottom. Its when we fish BELOW this depth that we become more concerned with the BOTTOM. Remember I didnt say DONT bump the bottom. Im just saying that you must bump from time to time or you would never be able to know if you were contouring the shoreline or running out across open water.
Another thing,,,,If your use to bass fishing the old way,,you,,,like myself were always LOOING for a GOOD LOOKING shoreline or a GOOD LOOKING spot. (FORGET THAT STUFF) Start fishing when you put the boat in the water. Heck,,,thats were all the tournament fish are RELEASED at. Think about that. Youll be surprised what your going to catch and where it will be caught. I promise. Dont be in a hurry. That just natural thing, I know,, but give it time. Enjoy the learning process. And one more little tip,,,,dont be afraid to fish that little 500. It will fool you sometimes. DONT GUESS youself short. Start shallow,,go deeper,,,(,repeat) untill you get in to the fish. Dont try to outsmart the fish. Just go by the recipe that Mr Perry has given you and I,,,,the ingredients are already their!

Once again, Welcome and good fishing!
WhopperStopper>with cheese

[Ramrod25]

Gentleman;

First of all, thanks for responding and all of the good advice.

Let me say that I'm taking up fishing again after laying off for 25 years. I've got the kids raised and mostly thru college; they are gone, but the attic is still full of their stuff. Maybe I could have a garage sale and then buy more Spoonplugs - hum????

Fran - the lake I'm going to spend most of my time on is Hugo Lake - located in southeastern Oklahoma north of Highway 70 East. It is just minutes from the house. The lake is a Flatlander, with the dam located on the south side of the reservoir. The lake is mainly fed by the Kaimichi river, which enters the lake from the north. This is a Corps of Engineer lake; they cleared the southern half of the lake of all brush and trees before the lake filled, which means most of the timber and brush are in the headwaters. The lake has excellent color all year long. This time of the year, with the winds blowing in from mainly the south, it is very difficult to fish the northern end of the lake, or the headwaters.

I bought the Navionics Hotmaps Explorer CD and it has an excellent topographic map of this lake. For $20 bucks - it's a great investment. It is much more detailed than the USGS topo, and I've found several good structures on the southern end of the lake to check out which should keep me out of the wind and waves. Several of these structures meet the criteria all of you have suggested so that is where I'll begin.

I use a 14 foot deep wide jon boat with a 15 hp Johnson engine. No big bass boat here. I did own one 25 years ago, but it was mainly used to pull the kids water skiing. I gave it to my son when he returned from the Navy - His boat in the Navy was the USS Hartford - Los Angeles class fast attack sub. I did get to ride on it from Florida to New London, CT just before he got out. Really cool, but no trolling when your 500 feet below the Atlantic.

I did join the National organization, and saw Mr. Rives listed there; he lives just a short distance from me; however, I was not aware of his experience level. I will try to contact him and perhaps we can get out on the lake together. It would be extremely valuable to get on the water with someone that knows what they are doing and actually see how this is done.

For what it is worth, on the subject of losing lures, I expect that everyone has lost their share and I will be no different. However, I did some research on the web and found something interesting. http://www.ultimateluresaver.com/ This company makes a ring that attaches the hook to the lure; but that is designed to "open" when a certain amount of pressure is applied to the lure. I ordered one package of 10 lb rings and a package of 12 lb rings from Cabelas. Since I'm absolutely sure I'll get hung up again, I'll report on how well these work. Supposedly, one looses the hook - not the lure. I hope it is permitted to mention a product like this one on this board.

Sorry for the long post - but again many thanks for the advice and information.

Regards
Rodney Wren

[david powell]

Hi ramrod,1st off no one can tell when a movement is going to happen.The only way to know if it has happened is to have been on the lake . Even then you would have to have been at the right place ,right time,fishing in the right manner. But usually you can expect only 1 movement during the cold weather season,and up through spawning,usually it will be up in the day,but even this is not set in stone.Between the spawn and the 1st heavy frost you can usually expect 2 one very early one very late.But again that may or may not be the case,but lets say you get on the lake 1st light, go to a good structure and get into a good group of fish,but its over by 9am.its been my experience, you can go to another that has not been bothered and catch more. But if you miss those fish you can still learn a lot and catch stragglers.AND AS ALWAYS THE BEST TIME TO GO IS ANY TIME YOU CAN. Just remember all good spoonpluggers will want to be the 1st boat on the lake and the last one off.
DAVID

[david powell]

By the way i looked at hugo lake on map quest was woundering how many acres,how deep are the flats and creek channel

[MartyMcAvoy]

Welcome Rodney! U will get plenty of Respect Here! & yes it is perfectly OK to mention any device that may save our Spoonplugs from a watery grave!! 2 points on that subject, Mr.Perry said that if U are not hung up every once in while, U will be missing alot of fish. & He also said, "There is a Hell of a Lot more to Spoonplugging than Spoonplugs!" So hangs are just part of it, & Lost Lures are part of that. Spoonplugging will make all the other lures in your box more valuable as we now have a better understanding of where, when, why, & how to use them. For example, jump types & other lures also have there place w/us. U have encountered the great flood of support & suggestion that is Unique to the Spoonpluggers, however... how U make use of it will affect your learning curve. The fellas have covered many such topix for U to consider, let me add one that I did not see mentioned... how U measure the success of your fishing. Making use of your time on the water, to 'Learn' about your lake will be most productive... & those dang fish just get in the way! Just about the time U may have a structure situation mapped out, U have to stop & get this damn thing off my spoonplug, I'm busy Here!! The approach to map as many features as U can, as thoroughly as U can at that given time, will teach U more about the lake regardless of fish caught. I said at that given time, due to later on in your spoonplugging, U will get better, & may need to update maps U have made as U have improved in abilities of interpretation. The Man said, "Fishing is tough, & then it gets worse!" & as U already pointed out, who the fish remind U of, (wife), & we are after the "Big Girls" so don't let their inconsistencies discourage U by measuring your fishing successes only in terms of catches or lack there of. Especially, since U are on the right track now... it is the journey, not just a destination. & Speaking of Journies, any opportunities U may have to attend a Spoonplugger Outing, U will also find a wealth of knowledge & experience, to be gained so quickly, it will make your head ache sometimes! I realize that would make for some long drives for U, but we have had Lou Kopiasz of Nebraska attend the last 2 Northern Indiana outings! I have it very bad U see, we have attended every national outing the spoonpluggers have hosted for now approaching 2 years, & I still can't wait for the next 1, each & every time! Expensive?, traveling to some can be but like Divorce, it's Worth it!! Welcome, Best wishes, Good Fishing, & Hope to See U on the water sometime, somewhere!! Marty

[Ramrod25]

David - Hugo Lake is approximately 10,000 acres - since it is a flood control lake that varies some. It is roughly 8 miles long and 2 miles wide. The flats in the lower lake are generally 20 feet deep and the channel runs from approximately 20 feet deep in the northern end down to about 65 feet at the dam.

A large part of the channel is in the 35-45 foot range as it makes its way down the lake.

There appear to be many very good structure situations to check out - if only the weather would cooperate. I wanted to get out on the lake last night, but we had a huge line of thunderstorms stretching for 250 miles to the west. It started raining just as I got off work, and we had lots of lightening and rain all night long. Forecast is not good for the next several days - the north end of the lake is out due to winds coming from the south. However, the south end of the lake will be fairly sheltered from the wind and has good structure if the thunderstorms stay away.

Thanks for clarifying that no one can tell when a movement will start. OK - that helps a lot.

I went back and read - studied, Vol 7 Book 1 last night on structure. I have picked out three or four, what is the right term - structure areas? My plan is to go out and map these areas and start learning how to use the tools.

Marty - appreciate the thoughts. I've read a lot of your posts on the board. I'd love to get to come to Chattanooga, but work may prevent that this year. I think I'll measure success, right now at least, in terms of learning to use the lures to map a structure. Perhaps a fish will get in the way. I have several bars picked out and then some bends in the channel where it comes close to shore. Even though this may be the wrong time seasonally to fish a bar, the goal for me now is lure presentation and boat control.

Thanks again everyone for the advice and help.

Regards
Rodney Wren

[MartyMcAvoy]

Anytime Rodney! As far as Movements ... I have heard stories of Mr. Perry, late in his career, at a body of water, w/conditions changing may not have been able to Pre-dict a movement, but would say due to the changing light conditions, they gonna move, soon or now! And w/that in mind considering his Vast experience, the rest of us can only follow his guidelines to the fish, & be there, waiting on em to move. Marty

[Fran Myers]

Rodney,
Everyone has given you great advice. But even if you are doing things "kinda" right, a LOT of fish are going to get in the way. The first season spoonplugging, I caught more fish than I did before - EVER. I know I wasn't doing very much right. Keep in mind early season can be challenging. Heck I still don't get into the fish this time of year when people are just hauling them in, so I have a long way to go too!

Just eat the elephant size pile of knowledge in little bites and you will be fine. Keep asking questions and know that we all want you to succeed.
Fran

[SlParker]

Ramrod25, my response will be from one who is the least experienced of any of the above posts as I have only been pluggin for a few years. All beginning pluggers go thru the same learning curve that you have experienced. SO much water , so much stuff to figure out..... but let me share my beginner experience and maybe it will help. How do you know when a movement is happening..... if you start catching small fish in shallow water on a structure...... is a great indicator of a movement.... so always troll the shallows first per the green book, trolling the shallows is easy..... As others have said weather fronts will really effect success, if you are out on a blue jay day and nothing is bitting it has been helpful for me to pick out a structure, get out paper and pen, start in shallow water and troll straight line vectors from shallow to deep water writing down depths each 5 seconds. Draw about 6 vectors from the shallow point and you will get a great profile of the structure and easily see the contact point which will allow you to pinpoint your trolling passes. Draw some linesights for the contact point and it will always be easy to troll in the future. I usually map a least one structure each time I go out, it only takes 10 minutes and it doesn't have to be fancy....I am filling up a spiral bound notebook with sketches on alot of different lakes. These sketches has really helped me to be a better plugger..... and it will help you...... I learned alot on days when I was not catching fish.....

Steve Parker Mid Atlantic Spoonpluggers...... We go Deep...

[david powell]

To Ramrod you made this post in april of this year,if you are still spoonplugging with us I would like to get an update from you.

[CHAMP]

I TOOK A LOOK AT HUGO LAKE NOW THAT WE HAVE NAVIONICS.I wonder if the guy ramrod is still fishing. He picked a tough lake for a new plugger, flatland #2 . Lots of trolling water here quit a bit of deltas. But there are some good fishing areas in this lake. Looks like the water color is very good.Main channel definitely home of the fish . Some very good feeder cuts entering main channel this is the fishing water for most of the year. But also has a few good bars.