Qustion for John Bales

[Garry B]

John, in the Contact Point thread, you made the comment "Many have gotten rid of their no bo line. They go to braid and never go back. This is a mistake. Use the no bo for down to 15-18 ft and then braid or wire."

Please explain why you believe that it's a mistake to troll with braid in 15-18 FOW or less.

Thank you.

[Hal Standish]

I really DoNot recall JB saying this about NOBO or Braid. If he did fine, I to would like to understand this better.."NOBO 15-18ft or less, Braid or wire deeper". Just wonder what I'm missing.
Thanks

hal

[John Bales]

Many do not cut their teeth on dark water where so much time is spent running the first three size lures with no bo. For years it was let out 8 layers(two colors), or 12 layers (three colors), or whatever it took. A few spoonpluggers started talking about the length of line being let out being important for active fish or not so active fish. The whole thing is related to how a fish may be effected by the passing of the boat and its reaction, good (faster), or bad (slower), for the seasons and daily conditions. The longer lines seemed to catch the inactive fish that take longer to react to the passing of the boat over head. The more active fish would react faster and you would want your lines shorter so that the fish would react to the lure faster, get the lure to the fish sooner. Mr. Perry always said that the early seasons you want the longer lines, the heat of the summer calls for the shorter lines, more active fish. No bo really shines when the longer lines are called for and if you don't have it or use it, you miss out. Many guys try the braid and as soon as they do, their feel increases a bit and they get rid of the no bo. I have heard so may say that they just get better feel with the braid. No bo, wire, and braid all have their place. That's why most of the experienced spoonpluggers have all three and are ready for anything. No bo is still a great tool, especially on the dark water colored lakes and any time the longer lines are called for. John

[Hal Standish]

Many do not cut their teeth on dark water where so much time is spent running the first three size lures with no bo. For years it was let out 8 layers(two colors), or 12 layers (three colors), or whatever it took. A few spoonpluggers started talking about the length of line being let out being important for active fish or not so active fish. The whole thing is related to how a fish may be effected by the passing of the boat and its reaction, good (faster), or bad (slower), for the seasons and daily conditions. The longer lines seemed to catch the inactive fish that take longer to react to the passing of the boat over head. The more active fish would react faster and you would want your lines shorter so that the fish would react to the lure faster, get the lure to the fish sooner. Mr. Perry always said that the early seasons you want the longer lines, the heat of the summer calls for the shorter lines, more active fish. No bo really shines when the longer lines are called for and if you don't have it or use it, you miss out. Many guys try the braid and as soon as they do, their feel increases a bit and they get rid of the no bo. I have heard so may say that they just get better feel with the braid. No bo, wire, and braid all have their place. That's why most of the experienced spoonpluggers have all three and are ready for anything. No bo is still a great tool, especially on the dark water colored lakes and any time the longer lines are called for. John

Thanks John, When you mention what Buck wrote about early season long line it made perfect sense. Thank-you again. During Pre spawn I thought about Bucks phraseology on this subject often.

Hal

[CHAMP]

Yes I can recall reading the home study course were Mr. Buck stated you may want a longer line in the colder season. But in no way does this mean braid won't be just as effective as no bo . Really as far as longer lines and inactive fish braid may be better. All that braid does is just run the plugs a little deeper/ plus better feel. But the breakline may be at just the right depth for spoonplugs on braid or it could be nobo. Also with inactive fish, using braid on a long lines may be better, instead of using a 200 on nobo 250 on braid may do better job reason being, most times inactive fish hit small lures better. So I can't say that not using nobo is a mistake, but surely there are times when all 3 are called for.

[Neil Toland]

So I can't say that not using nobo is a mistake, but surely there are times when all 3 are called for.

What diameter and brand braid are you typically running?

[John Bales]

20lb Suffix 832 with some kind of leader. No bo, wire, a piece of 50 lb mono for the pike, whatever the situation calls for but never without some kind of leader. Braid to #10 swivel and then to leader or braid with a double uni knot to a no bo leader and then a snap. Everyone has their own thoughts. Bottom conditions, muscles, snags, fish species, depth I want to attain, all has a little to do with the type of leader. John

[CHAMP]

20210728_194630.jpg (411.55 KiB) Viewed 33070 times

Always use 17lb. mono leader bout length of rod from reel to tip

[MuskyAddict]

While we are talking about No-Bo and Braid, which rods are your go-to choices and when would you use each. The website has (1) a short handle regular action, (2) a short handle heavy action, and (3) a long cork handle regular action. I assume the short handles are casting rods and the long handle is a trolling rod. Is there a trolling rod that is heavy action? When do you find each tool the right one for the job?

Ken

[Hal Standish]

While we are talking about No-Bo and Braid, which rods are your go-to choices and when would you use each. The website has (1) a short handle regular action, (2) a short handle heavy action, and (3) a long cork handle regular action. I assume the short handles are casting rods and the long handle is a trolling rod. Is there a trolling rod that is heavy action? When do you find each tool the right one for the job?

Ken

Coming the shotgun shooting world I understood very well the shooting a shotgun was part art form and science. The fit of shotgun to the individual could very well be down 1/64 of inch. When LOP ,Drop,Cast, Pitch, and balance considered, As a whole shot guns are built for a certain individual by the manufacturer and it is up to the purchaser to re tool the stock for his/her individual needs.
Ha! Fishing rods manufacturers can label a rod just about any thing that fits their fancy. for example I 3 have Daiwa's 5 1/2 ft long,long handled all three marked Extra Heavy Action. Each rod is different and I defy any any one to tell me which rod is actually extra heavy. The rods cannot be all extra heavy because each rod is different in its flex, strength, feel. Now consider Rod manufacturers, each have the their own opinion as what action and strength are.
Get a rod that works for you.

Hal

[John Bales]

I agree with Hal. Over the many years, I have had a ton of rods which each of them had the action that would fit different lure sizes and lines. Some were not good for anything and they didn't hang around long. Half of what I use today are bucks rods and the others were from Mike Beck. My favorite no bo rod, Mike made me and I hated it but I found by cutting a bit off the butt end, it is now my favorite no bo rod and I cannot tell you how many fish I have caught with this simple set up. My no bo rod would not be what I would use for wire or larger heavier baits. The same thing goes for the rods we use for the JB's. I wouldn't run the smaller lures with the JB rods. I buy all of my casting rods from one bait shop near me. I can take a reel with me and string up the rod and feel it. I will not pay good money for a rod without testing it first unless one of my bass friends tells me a certain rod is great for doing this or that. Everything is just another tool to do a job. If it doesn't fit or do it's job for one reason or another, its gone and replaced. This forum is a really good thing but everyone has their own ideas on what might be best and what they do might not fit someone else. Trial and error can cost you but making mistakes is also a great way to learn. I have made many of them. John

[Steve Craig]

Ken,
The Regular action Trolling rod is for running the first 3 lure sizes, for the most part.
The Heavy action is for the larger size lures.
Some guys prefer the short handles and some the long handle.

I still have my original trolling rods that i bought in 1973. Ive added different handles, and re- worked them over the years with new guides and tips when needed.
I also have a couple of Custom Trolling rods that were made using Bucks rod design buy a guy in Leasburg Fl. in 1979. One is the Regular with a long handle, and the other is the Heavy action with long handle. I only use these with NoBo and Braid.

When using JB's, Manns Stretch, Ernies, KVD 10's, etc., with Wire, I have gone to using the Penn Boat rods. 3 different actions, depending on what I am doing. All are solid glass, with VERY long handles. Very easy to hang on to while trolling without wearing you out during long days trolling, and all fit quite well in my rod holders.

For casting rods, use the best you can afford, and what gives you the best feel.

[MuskyAddict]

Thanks Hal, John and Steve,

I’m going thru the rods I have to learn how they feel with each model of spoonplug. I’m only using spoonplugs this year for trolling and focusing mostly on the 1st 3 lures when I can. I’m going to re-spool a couple of reels with No-Bo and keep working. I’m going out this evening to map the structure I failed to map on Sunday.

I keep telling myself that it takes a year to get a years worth of experience. Back to work.

Ken

[John Bales]

Just a note. I rarely use no bo in 17 or 20 with the exception of the Florida lakes . 12lb has worked on the lakes around here for all the years I have been doing this. They call it 12 but its diameter is similar to 20 and you can pull a car down the road with it. John

[Garry B]

"I assume the short handles are casting rods and the long handle is a trolling rod."

Ken, the rods offered by Buck Baits rods are solid glass trollingrods, regardless of the length of the handle.