Chase Klinesteker just posted a YouTube video of Kenny Hyde on the water training from 1997.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_WHCgca3Bs
At 23:45 Kenny talks about starting with a 500 spoonplug even though he is working a 12' breakline and the lure only runs 2-3 feet. This means the spoonplug will be free running. This is counter to my understanding and what I have been doing- to start in the shallows and bounce all the spoonplugs as I work progressively deeper.
Don Dickson's most recent contour trolling video does the same procedure (free swimming the spoonplugs) adjacent to a weedline, but Kenny does not mention weedlines and it does not appear there is one where he mapped in the video.
Can you help me understand when I can start at a 12' breakline (using all the sizes) and not have to start in 3' of water?
-- Mike
Straining the shallows
-
TN_Explorer
- 250 series
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:11 am
- Location: Tennessee
-
Steve Craig
- JB2
- Posts: 1961
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Straining the shallows
Mike,
There are two ideas going on here.
When you are in the shallows, 0 to 8-10 feet, the fish will take a free running lure, both casting and trolling.
If you are trolling and you are bumping bottom, you are trying to find the "contour" or shape of the bottom. We contour troll to find "structure". To do this we MUST be bumping bottom some or most of the time.
Once past that 10 foot depth, you and i had better be BUMPING bottom if we want to catch a fish.
If you are trolling a 12 foot breakline, we need to be bumping bottom most of the time. Our "contour" trolling in the shallows will have shown us that a structure was present. Our depth finder will help us to determine the size and shape and any breaklines present.
WE DO NOT run a 500 over the top of a 12 foot breakline. (Although,This type of trolling will be done for certain species and in waters like the Great Lakes and in the Ocean where you might be trolling an 800 over a 70 foot breakline for Salmon, that are suspended 25 feet deep over that 70 foot breakline, for instance.)
That said, If we have a weedline or a brushline out to that 12 foot breakline, then we run ALL sizes and "stack" them from 2 to 12 foot down the "wall" of that breakline/weedline.
Hope this is as clear as mud.
Steve
There are two ideas going on here.
When you are in the shallows, 0 to 8-10 feet, the fish will take a free running lure, both casting and trolling.
If you are trolling and you are bumping bottom, you are trying to find the "contour" or shape of the bottom. We contour troll to find "structure". To do this we MUST be bumping bottom some or most of the time.
Once past that 10 foot depth, you and i had better be BUMPING bottom if we want to catch a fish.
If you are trolling a 12 foot breakline, we need to be bumping bottom most of the time. Our "contour" trolling in the shallows will have shown us that a structure was present. Our depth finder will help us to determine the size and shape and any breaklines present.
WE DO NOT run a 500 over the top of a 12 foot breakline. (Although,This type of trolling will be done for certain species and in waters like the Great Lakes and in the Ocean where you might be trolling an 800 over a 70 foot breakline for Salmon, that are suspended 25 feet deep over that 70 foot breakline, for instance.)
That said, If we have a weedline or a brushline out to that 12 foot breakline, then we run ALL sizes and "stack" them from 2 to 12 foot down the "wall" of that breakline/weedline.
Hope this is as clear as mud.
Steve
Religion is a guy in church, thinking about fishing.
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
-
TN_Explorer
- 250 series
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:11 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Straining the shallows
Thank you, Steve - you confirmed my understanding completely and I'm on the same page.
You're right that I described two different situations - The Kenny video did not have a weedline - that is why I was confused. He said the fish may be only 2-4 feet deep on a 12' breakline and that was why he started with a 500.
Cheers, and thanks again for chiming in.
-- mike
You're right that I described two different situations - The Kenny video did not have a weedline - that is why I was confused. He said the fish may be only 2-4 feet deep on a 12' breakline and that was why he started with a 500.
Cheers, and thanks again for chiming in.
-- mike
-
Kevin Atwell
Re: Straining the shallows
I saw that and it confused me as well...I'm going to watch that video many times to try to understand. He must know what he's doing he had some pictures of some MONSTER bass!
-
Steve Craig
- JB2
- Posts: 1961
- Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:22 pm
- Location: Arizona
Re: Straining the shallows
I believe that Kenny was confused by the question. He like all other good Spoonpluggers, knows that once we get below 10 feet, our lure had better be on the bottom.
He and I have fished that lake several times together.
Kenny k owns the deal.
He and I have fished that lake several times together.
Kenny k owns the deal.
Religion is a guy in church, thinking about fishing.
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
Relationship is a guy out fishing, thinking about God!
Re: Straining the shallows
I realize this is "against the rule book" but I did it for years. (Buck approved of it. He said...."that gives you a shorter line out there and you can keep that lure in position better".
I used wire line (with the 5 foot no-bo leader) exclusively when doing all my trolling..!!!! (except for the 500 and 400....once I got past checking with them, out came the wire).
It didn't take too long (all of 30 minutes) on a first experimenting trip (wayyyyy back there decades ago) to write down how much wire to let out for the 250, 200, 100, 700, to walk or tip the bottoms. And I always LOVED rip-rap, so the "tipping" part was very important or you'd lose lures. And there was usually present a killer 'base breakline' or an old 'channel cut off'. From then on the mechanics was all a matter of routined speed control.
Shorter line lengths never presented any troubles with "scaring the fish" for me....even in the early spring along the steep banks.
It just gave me more control and I liked the feel of that fish blasting the lure at the end of that wire. Plus it absolutely RAMMED those hooks into the jaw.
I was using the stranded (I didn't know the solid monel even existed) as far back as 1966-1967 when I was winning all that money gambling on head to head fishing matches with strangers after challenging all comers and "running my big mouth" at marinas and fishing docks.
Used to even call 'em up on the phone...."Say mister, they tell me you're hell on wheels around here with this fishing thing. You wanta' come down to this boat dock and go at it heads up for about 6 hours for a good sized bet?? Just bring plenty of money and your partner to go in my boat to watch me and I've already got my man here to go in your boat to watch you. We can put up the stakes, shake hands, and have at it."
I sometimes wonder if you could get away with capers like that nowadays.....as hot headed, touchy, and violent as so many people seem to be now.
Just some of my past experience....others may do as they please, of course
And that's the name of that tune.....
Douglas
I used wire line (with the 5 foot no-bo leader) exclusively when doing all my trolling..!!!! (except for the 500 and 400....once I got past checking with them, out came the wire).
It didn't take too long (all of 30 minutes) on a first experimenting trip (wayyyyy back there decades ago) to write down how much wire to let out for the 250, 200, 100, 700, to walk or tip the bottoms. And I always LOVED rip-rap, so the "tipping" part was very important or you'd lose lures. And there was usually present a killer 'base breakline' or an old 'channel cut off'. From then on the mechanics was all a matter of routined speed control.
Shorter line lengths never presented any troubles with "scaring the fish" for me....even in the early spring along the steep banks.
It just gave me more control and I liked the feel of that fish blasting the lure at the end of that wire. Plus it absolutely RAMMED those hooks into the jaw.
I was using the stranded (I didn't know the solid monel even existed) as far back as 1966-1967 when I was winning all that money gambling on head to head fishing matches with strangers after challenging all comers and "running my big mouth" at marinas and fishing docks.
Used to even call 'em up on the phone...."Say mister, they tell me you're hell on wheels around here with this fishing thing. You wanta' come down to this boat dock and go at it heads up for about 6 hours for a good sized bet?? Just bring plenty of money and your partner to go in my boat to watch me and I've already got my man here to go in your boat to watch you. We can put up the stakes, shake hands, and have at it."
I sometimes wonder if you could get away with capers like that nowadays.....as hot headed, touchy, and violent as so many people seem to be now.
Just some of my past experience....others may do as they please, of course
And that's the name of that tune.....
Douglas