Questions from South Africa

[Fran Myers]

Deon from South Africa and other guys and I have been having a conversation about some basics of Spoonplugging. I have answered the questions in direct email but I want to share the questions with you guys so our South African friends can benefit from the different opinions and levels of experience we have on our forum.

Now PLEASE understand that our educational materials are not easy to get on the other continent. I have sent a couple of Green Books and Home Study courses but until about 10 months ago, no person in South Africa every heard of Buck Perry. So try to not jump on the standard response of "It's in the Book" answer. The guys are trying and lets just share our knowledge as best we can.

These are Deon's Questions:

1) Let's say we are fishing a very shallow dam (South African term for reservoir) and after identifying the contact
point at about 10ft, will trolling over the area with the main motor not
affect the fish ?? Maybe I still need to get to this part in my research
but I seen a video where the guy makes 4 passes over his contact point that
was sitting in 9ft. Was he just lucky or don't they spook (the fish) that easily ?

2) Have you ever thought of changing the Spoonplug bait to a modified
crankbait or something similar? I know it's all about location but in almost
all the videos everyone always uses this Spoonplug bait?

3) you said in a previous email that I can use my current boat but it will
slow me down, from what I see your comment is basically based on a
maneuverability aspect?

This bug really caught me!! I can't wait to watch and read more! I learned
so much this last few days that I had to start making me a print out to put
on the boat for incase I forgot something!

[brett]

#1 - you won't be concerned about this when you start catching fish. anyway, the motor gets their attention, which is good. now think in terms of line length and activity level of the fish - shorter line for aggressive conditions, longer line for slower conditions. in other words the motor sound will take longer to get their attention in slower conditions so longer line gives fish more time to be ready to react.
#2 - use the tools you are comfortable with and that accomplish the objective. I'm mostly using spoonplugs because I'm used to them, like their feel, and know pretty much exactly where they are depth wise all day without thinking about it too much. some keep it simple and stick to spoonplugs and others experiment or use alternative tackle completely. For me I felt it was best to focus mostly on spoonplugs for awhile so as not to get distracted.
#3 - All I can add is that a small/medium boat with tiller is the only way I could accomplish my objective. The tiller allows good feel and reaction to staying in position on your passes.

[The Fisherman]

1) I cannot agree with Brett more that the motor will at times, stir the fish up and help produce a higher activity level
- However, Mr. Perry did write a little and spoke to individuals a lot about this situation. Weather and water conditions are going to determine just how shallow the fish will be, at times you may be really lucky and find a contact point in ten feet of water. Additionally most of the time if it is this shallow and if the speed control will allow you may well be better off casting a bottom bouncing free swimming lure.
- Seasonally the fish can be affected very differently by the sound of a boat and motor as well as overall boat traffic can really harm a shallow contact point. In the spring, when the male fish are preparing a bed the fish, during pre and post spawn, the fish will be "skittish" I personally would rather cast for largemouth during this time. My reason for this is not only scaring the fish but quite often you need a VERY slow speed to get a fish to remove a bait from the bed. If they are not on bed and have moved to the deeper breaklines and breaks then you will often find the same situation. This is because the males will really have to get hammered by bad weather and water conditions to move off the nest so their dormancy will be quite apparent.
- Summer in most areas where you will find a contact point that shallow, the sound of an outboard WILL NOT be a hindrance yet it will be an aid. Also you never want to surprise a fish, they will leave.
- Fall will bring you to a very similar situation, in a lot of cases you will find that a medium line will be better than short or long just because the metabolic rate of the fish during these periods.
- Winter will most of the time force you to a long or extra long line. Brett was speaking the gospel here. You will want the time for the fish to hear the engine, feel the lure bouncing via his lateral line, and then locate and take the lure. The fish's metabolic rate is at this point very slow and you want to be slow, and give him adequate time to locate the lure.
- Spring, ha fun time but really we should not be taking fish off beds. Go fish for pan fish or bottom feeders.

2) There is in no way anything at all wrong with trolling or using something besides a Spoonplug. I have collection of other crankbaits that I am really proud of. You will not however see me trolling them as much as a spoonplug.
- At times, winter in particular, a lure that will have proper depth control and still run properly is called for. This is not when I get out a 700 and run 15' deep. This is when I get out a whatever crankbait and it serves its purpose as a tool for the depth and speed I am checking out.
- One thing about the " I know its all about the location comment", Depth and speed cover the where, when, why, what, how, etc. So as all lures, Spoonplugs were designed with a specific purpose and once they have served that purpose they should be taken off and the the next control thoroughly eliminated.

3) Boat, Spoonplugging has nothing to do with your boat it is simply a word for knowledge of how to consistently catch fish. However, you limit yourself to the amount of "knowledge" you can ever gain with a remote steering boat. I have Spoonplugged out of a 42' Ocean Charter boat, I was succsessfull. I have also used a center console carolina skiff for spoonplugging. With the above to mention boats the following was the outcome:

-WORK
-Lost lures
-WORK
-Less fish because of a loss of direct control of my depth and speed
-Knowledge lost of the bottom conditions because I could not "feel" what my lures were telling me

I grew up Spoonlugging out of a 14' fiberglass lund tri hull with a tiller 15hp. Best boat i have ever been in. I encountered the following with this boat:

-Zero work in controlling or operating the boat
-Very limited loss of lures because I had immediate control and feel of my boat and lures
-Much more fish because I had DIRECT control of all of my controls and aids
-The most knowledge that I gained in my fishing life, I knew everything that my tools told be, never guessing
-Oh and I had no depth sounder until I had learned mapping and interpretation without one. This is not a brag, I say it for one reason. With a smaller tiller boat, you can accomplish so much with the tools and procedures that Mr. Perry gave us that you miss nothing. Then later when you upgrade to some aids like a depth sounder you only get better, you are then aided in learning instead of hurt by aids. I am not saying not to use a depth sounder, this mapping without a lure in the water is seriously the S%$T! But if you still don't know what your lures are saying once you use them then perhaps you would be better off not doing the mapping this way until you have some experience.

Josh

[Fran Myers]

Now that some of you guys have responded to the questions Deon sent me I will post the response I sent back to Deon.

Email:

I got this email at about 130 am and I have been thinking about the responses. These are the questions that I was hoping to hear a year ago.
So I will give you my take on the answers BUT I am also going to post your questions on the forum. Here are my responses:

1) Let's say we fishing a very shallow dam and after identifying the contact point
at about 10ft will trolling over the area with the main motor not affect the fish ??
Maybe I still need to get to this parts in my research
but I seen a video where the guy makes 4 passes over his contact point that
was sitting in 9ft. Was he just lucky or don't they spook that easily ?
NOTE: When you get the books you will start to see where I have gotten the information I am giving you now.

In the Basic Movements section of all the educational materials - including the 'Spoonpluggers Basic Guideline', Mr Perry wrote that the HOME of the fish is in the deep water. The definition of deep water has a number of different meanings. First we say - The home of the fish is in the deepest water in the lake, the deepest water in the area, or the deepest water available.

If you look at Inanda Dam there are places where the depth of the water is 100+ feet deep. Then as you go away from the dam wall the deepest water in the channel gets shallower the farther from the dam wall you drive. Thus in those sections that is the deep water, ie the channel could be 20 feet deep. Next you go to a small man made pond that a rancher built that is 8 feet deep at its deepest. The 8 feet is the home of the fish.

Now from the description above the HOME of the fish could be in 100+ feet, 20 feet, or 8 feet. All would be true.

Now on a SEASONAL Migration of BASS or any fish for that matter there are times when fish are just so out of their comfort zone that they are very skitish or nervous. Mr Perry said that MOST of the ADULT fish rarely or NEVER migrate to the shallows of 8 to 10 feet of water. So it make sense that when you get a group of fish that are in their spawning migration thus being much shallower than they would be 90+% of the time that yes the fish will be nervous or SPOOK EASILY. Most believe that this happens in the spring during the spawn.

But what I have been told and what I have experienced is that fish appear to be curious creatures. That sound and light attract fish. Mrs Perry told me a story where as a child Buck would deliberately jump from one boat to another making as much racket as he could to get the fishes attention. I have seen on Fishing Shows of divers following a school of Smallmouth Bass on film. The camera boat deliberately drove over the school so the diver could record their reaction. Did the fish scatter? Nope. They tilted up (facing the boat) and literally tracked the boat like a missile or a rifleman leading a moving animal.

Personally I have been trolling in an area. You will see that the fish literally turn on and off just like a light bulb. You can be literally have nothing going on then just all the rods go bug shit and you are catching like crazy. Then in 2, 5, 10, or 90 minutes later the fish will just stop biting. I have restarted the movement by racing the boat at full throttle in circles and really frothing up the water. We managed to get a few more fish. When the fish stopped, we left.

I only think about skittish fish in terms of activity and I adjust differently. I may use a lure (not necessarily a Spoonplug) on an extremely long line (250 feet or more). But the warmer the water, hotter the weather, the shorter the line, the faster the trolling speed (up to 15 mph!), with the lure right in the boil of the water! Skittish nope. In fact Mr. Perry said he never worried about skittish fish. He wanted the fish to know he was around. A lot of us laugh about Invisible Fishing line, slow creeping presentations 100% of the time. Spoonplugs churn through the water sending so many vibrations out that there is no way we go un-noticed.

2) Did you ever thought of changing the Spoonplug bait to a modified
crank bait or something similar? I know it's all about location but in almost
all the videos everyone always uses this Spoonplug bait?

The Spoonplug is one of the most marvelous lures ever made. For specific line lengths each lure will go to a specific depth (that is how buck was able to map enormous body's of water without a depth sounder). A Spoonplug will also be rock steady through a variety of of speeds. What is unique to the Spoonplug is that it is one of the few today (and the first lure that could) maintain a specific depth over a variety of speeds. No other lure I am familiar with can hold a specific depth and go from 2 mph to 10 mph at the same time.

BUT (there always is one) the Spoonplug tends to be a lure for the faster speed range. There are lures that allow for pretty good depth control at very slow speeds and very long lines. Spoonplugs would stop vibrating at the speeds I am thinking of. I really like Rapala DT series and the Shad Raps. But keep in mind these lures aren't substitutes for Spoonplugs they are tools used for specific situations where a Spoonplug wouldn't be appropriate.

There are two things I'd like to add on this subject. First, Mr Perry said he didn't care what lure you used as long as it held the correct depth and speed for the situation. Second, there are thousands of lures out in the world and I have used a small fraction. But I have never found a lure that performs like a Spoonplug and it catches EVERYTHING. Not always but it certainly is my bread and butter lure.

John Bales has extended the lure line with his new JB series of lures. Bigger, deeper, faster running lures. Mr Perry caught bass close to 15 pounds. When asked why he hadn't caught any bigger he said his lure were too small. Why he didn't make bigger ones is a different subject but with the JB's I predict we will start getting some enormous fish.

3) you said in a previous email that I can use my current boat but it will
slow me down, from what I see your comment is basically based on a
maneuverability aspect?

Yes, maneuverability is the issue. As hard as it may be to understand there are trolling and mapping procedures that work best with smallish, light weight TILLER driven boats. I have two boats. One fairly large and heavy by our standards and another one that is light and smallish. I can do everything in my big boat that I can in the little boat now after 6 years but had I followed Buck's advice on boats I would have progressed in my learning much faster.

[madporra]

Thanks for the responses so far guys, really appreciate it.

I will be looking at the FLOOD PLAIN RESERVOIRS thread soon so I can come up with some questions.

Cheers!