a question

[John Bales]

A fisherman went fishing last week and in two days caught 52 northern pike. He was trolling a spoonplug at the outside of a 14 foot weedline. He was also using a three way rig with a 4 3/4 inch lightweight flutter spoon. Of the 52 fish caught, 47 of them took the flutter spoon instead of the spoonplug. Why do you suppose most of the fish took the flutter spoon and not the spoonplug? My guess, he was trolling a 200 on braided line. The water temp was 61 degrees. Anyone? John

[Fran Myers]

Wow that's a good question. The only things I can think of is that the bottom was soft and the spoonplug wasnt in the right place (under the muck). The other thing is that the trailer was far enough away from the boat in spring conditions while the spoonplug was just too close.

Both bad ideas but I've been flying all day so my good ideas are at home.

[Steve Craig]

Buck always said that all fishing questions can be answered in terms of depth and speed control.

Not hard to figure out using Bucks idea. The flutter spoon was moving at the correct depth and due to its action(different speed control), was also moving at the proper speed for the conditions that day.
Action can and does make a difference in catching or not catching. One of the first schools of fish I ever got into was post spawn, the crank bait didnt do it, I switched to a jump bait(heavy), that didnt do it, I switched to a lighter jig, that didnt do it, then went to jigging a spinner bait, and caught my limit (5 LM Bass) on 8 casts to the same spot! The spinnerbait weighed the same as the heavy jig, but I believe that little bit of different speed control(action) made the difference.

Tomorrows speed control or even the next few hours, might not be the same.

[John Bales]

Boy Steve, you sure made that a short one!!!!!!! Your thinking was right on the money. Your first thoughts were of depth and speed and it should be. If you cannot get the answer from those two controls, which in most cases you can, then you must bring in the other three. Size, color and then action. You hit it right on the money. The flutter spoon had the correct control of action at the particular time that our fisherman was on the water. Thought we might get a bit more chatter before someone's thinking was right on but you got here too quick. Great thinking. John

[Steve Craig]

Sorry to mess up your post! But thank you for the kind words. I was always told I was a good student. In many ways, I must disagree with that......
I had and have, very, very good teachers!
Although, you may not know it, you are one of them. A few others that have to get the credit is Jerry Borst, Jim Vaughn and Wayne Alford.
Any e-mail, post, or conversation I have with these great gentlemen, I shut my trap and open my ears!
There is a very good reason the Good Lord, gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth! Not enough people follow this principle.

Maybe I will try to help you out here...............
A Spoonplugger went out to fish.
On one line he ran a 200 Series on an extra long line 8-10 colors.
On another line he had a 200 Series on a medium length line 4 colors.
While trolling a very long breakline (miles)in a Flordia type lake, He caught fish all day long on the extra long line, but then suddenly started catching fish on the shorter line, and couldnt catch a fish on the long line. After a period of time (less than an hour), he couldnt catch a fish on the short line, but the longer one began producing again.

What happened and Why?

Come on guys......this is a real situation. Lets here from you.

[Bink]

A fisherman went fishing last week and in two days caught 52 northern pike. He was trolling a spoonplug at the outside of a 14 foot weedline. He was also using a three way rig with a 4 3/4 inch lightweight flutter spoon. Of the 52 fish caught, 47 of them took the flutter spoon instead of the spoonplug. Why do you suppose most of the fish took the flutter spoon and not the spoonplug? My guess, he was trolling a 200 on braided line. The water temp was 61 degrees. Anyone? John

Makes scense, so many times on tough days the pike hit as the plug falls when you stop the motor. Right depth but wrong speed

Sorry to mess up your post! But thank you for the kind words. I was always told I was a good student. In many ways, I must disagree with that......
I had and have, very, very good teachers!
Although, you may not know it, you are one of them. A few others that have to get the credit is Jerry Borst, Jim Vaughn and Wayne Alford.
Any e-mail, post, or conversation I have with these great gentlemen, I shut my trap and open my ears!
There is a very good reason the Good Lord, gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth! Not enough people follow this principle.

Maybe I will try to help you out here...............
A Spoonplugger went out to fish.
On one line he ran a 200 Series on an extra long line 8-10 colors.
On another line he had a 200 Series on a medium length line 4 colors.
While trolling a very long breakline (miles)in a Flordia type lake, He caught fish all day long on the extra long line, but then suddenly started catching fish on the shorter line, and couldnt catch a fish on the long line. After a period of time (less than an hour), he couldnt catch a fish on the short line, but the longer one began producing again.

What happened and Why?

Come on guys......this is a real situation. Lets here from you.

Steve
Id assume the shorter line would be running a bit shallower and faster then a long line with less control.
Most of the day the fish were triggered to bite the slower, deeper plug but when they moved they took the faster shallower plug.

[John Bales]

Hey Bink, I wont rouine Steve's post. Good question, very good. Many do no know of this . Thats why it is a great subject. Come on guys, give Steve some answers. John

[Fran Myers]

Steve,
I have the answer to your question but I will wait a bit before I answer you. Awesome question. I would also say that this question is very valid anywhere, especially this time of year. On Erie, by making those adjustments in line length cause the person with the long line to catch at least 2 to 1 over someone with a short line.

Fran

[beckman44]

Steve; My take on this is that the fish were taking the longer line when they were in a more neutral mood as the motor came over them and didn't react to the short line. As the day went on they became active for a period and were more aggressive therfore took the short line. When the movement period slowed, the longer line took more fish again as they became less aggressive. Bill.

[Fran Myers]

Bill,
This is correct. I would have used the words more active, less active, or dormant.

You remember our slides from a couple.years ago:-) This particular long/short line issue comes up all the time, not just in the spring, in Florida, or Lake Erie. Last year I learned that even in water that is 90 degrees or warmer if the fish are inactive say after a severe series of cold fronts - long lines may be the key to catching the few stragglers that stick their heads up. Even in that same 90 degree water ZERO speed may be required to catch the fish in a severe cold front situation. (John 24, Fran 2)

Erie this.year...because of the late spring few of anything was being caught. Guys in the tackle stores said it was the the worst April in 30 years and no bass were seen. We were out less than 5 minutes and we had bass. Long lines saved the trip.

As the week progressed fish started coming in the shallows. But still longish lines were required plus some real intense jerks (both ends of the line) with a pause triggered some very aggressive strikes. John and Kenny caught 47 bass this way in 1 day.

I know that long lines in the adverse weather and water conditions make or break the day. Thanks Kenny for showing me. We all read this in the greenbook but some times you need to be shown what was really meant by extreme long lines.

[John Bales]

You got it Bill, on the money. Lots have been learned about the short and long lines by sharing knowledge with other sponpluggers. Makes a person do some thinking though. Most of my spoonplugging life, when a lure was chosen to run a particular depth, the line was let out till the lure touched the bottom. If the bottoms could be walked, I did. If not, the line was adjusted so that the lure was as close as it could be without fouling. It didnt matter what the line was being used, this is what was done. It was a simple matter of checking out the speeds on my passes. Now we bring in the long lines where another spoonplugger makes a great catch and you do not and the only difference was the legnth of line being used. And then you bring in the three way where a rapala type lure or a thin spoon is used in conjunction with a spoonplug. You are out fishing in the way that you are taught and another fellow comes in with a giant stringer of walleye, all caught on the three way. You didnt know about it at the time. Sooooooooooooo......... I ask myself, with these things in mind, have I checked the area good enough with a few trolling passes? Something to think about isnt it? Most all of this is in the study material somewhere. We have all read about it. Maybe just didnt stick in the mind at that particular time. Maybe thought it would never pertain to our fishing. Maybe just did not experience it on the water yet. Interesting stuff. John

[beckman44]

John; I can tell one of the gifts passed on to you from Mr. Perry was to make us think about a fishing situation. That is the sign of a good teacher, by not giving the answer to the student until they where forced to think about it. Thanks, Bill.

[Bassdawgie]

You guys are killing me. I am still trying to keep the plug on the bottom and the boat from hitting the bank at the same time. I will however file this away until such time as i can competently run more than 30yd of line. Look behind you, i am slow but relentless.I am going to be a monster. Dwight

[spnplgrkenny]

Awesome Attitude Dwight, Even from the beginning, A person realizes that spoonplugging is very unique. It is not the norm, But it's the only thing that makes sense to me now. No haphazard stuff in mr. perry's teachings. I have found that the people that become spoonpluggers are very unique, talented, sharing, great group of individuals. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that becoming part of a local spoonplugging club, if involved will put you lightyears ahead of the game. If there is a shortcut to success, it comes in the form of other great spoonpluggers. To me, that's what makes it so special. It has always amazed me how all the veteran spoonpluggers were willing to help me out, to teach me and show me little tidbits that made a huge difference in my success, without ever seeking attention themselves.
All the success that I have had in the last 25 years started with, of course Mr. Perry, right on down to greats such as Frank Hamill, John Bales, Wayne alford and several others. Recently I watched Jerry Borst 2011 Chicago presentation and was blown away by what I picked up from this phenominal spoonplugger and teacher. I speak with John weekly, picking up great information each and every conversation. Networking makes a huge difference. I came into spoonplugging not knowing much of anything, even though I had fished for years. I personaly feel that the guys that come into spoonplugging that think they know it all will never make as good a spoonplugger as the one's that didn't know much of anything.

Of course, It take's great passion, toughness, desire, and a willingness to listen and study. A lifetime is really not enough time to learn all there is to know about spoonplugging. The only thing that will defeat a good spoonplugger is time spent on the water. When I return from a trip or a day's fishing, i immediately start planning for my next trip. It's what keeps me going. Occasionally I get on the forum posting pictures from a great catch, but make no mistake about it, even after 25 years, there is many days when the depth and speed, weather and water, and all the conditions that protect the fish from extinction, DO NOT COOPERATE. But the great thing about spoonplugging is , after you have done it for years, when they do not cooperate, you understand why.

I would highly encourage you to attend the Kentucky lake jamboree in October. This will be priceless!!!!!.

[Steve Craig]

Remember all fishing questions must be answered in terms of depth and speed control. This is all this is about.
I really believe that many of us do not really understand just how important this really is.
The next thing and what I was really wanting you all to get here, is to simply ask questions when you come up against these situations.
My great lesson learned here, was I went two full days before I asked why I wasnt catching! Don Dickson would have let me go the entire week if I hadnt finally asked. This postis simply about be OBSERVANT! You and I had better be watching what is going on around us all the time.
Dont be afraid to ask these great spoonpluggers questions! Call John, call Kenny, call Jerry, call and find out the why's and wherefores of a fishing situation.
But just be prepared to have your answer in terms of depth and speed control. It is the key to true fishing knowledge.