The next one of these Spoonplugger outings thats held down south here, I am going to show up with $200 cash and I want one of the wire line hot shots to take me out for 4 hours and demonstrate (and also let me try it too) this use of wire line in water 40 to 50 feet deep on a delta or channel edge or intersection. I would be especially interested in seeing the "tipping the tops of trees" submerged in those depths, (using 800's).
Dont jive me about "this lake isnt suitable"...that tale won't make it.
If you can cut it, then it will be easiest $200 you ever made. I made a $50 offer on this at the one up in Hickory a few years ago and not a soul came out of the seat to take the money.
So, being a curious type...I am raising it to $200. Not interested in catching a fish, could care less, I just want to see and feel the mechanics and CONTROL of this phenomenon. Remember, any water less than 40 feet doesnt count.
By the way, if any of you are touring through this state and want to meet me at a particular lake, thats even better. The same money deal applies.
I will show up and you can take the money. Email me, write, or call.
Regards,
Douglas
$200 easy money...come get it from me!
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pat maio
An offer you can't refuse.....
Douglas:
If you ever find youself up my way I'd be glad to show you that wire line is no big deal (I admit it was tough at the start).
It won't even cost you 200 bucks. Just bring some Crown Royal with you and we'll smile in the my boat.
In the meantime let me add this:
The one big mistake I corrected with wire line was---after the proper amount of line was out you put the motor in neutral and wait, wait, wait till the line sinks (JWT explains this well). You will definitely know when the lure hits bottom as there w ill be a slight drag. Immediately run the boat forward to feel the bump. Maybe adjust the length, little more or a little less depending on the feel. Soft bottoms are harder to feel as you know but you can still feel. There is no question on hard bottoms the feel of the lure and wire goes right to your rod hand.
One other thing. You can use smaller sizes rather than the recommended size for the depth. Buck told me this and I was skeptical until I tried it. Yeah, no matter what size lure metal sinks if given enough time! The speeds are slower at these depths so the lure will not ride up off the bottom.
I use 12lb wire. Perhaps the heavier tests give better results. I don't know as I've never tried them. Some day, maybe.
Also, you'll always know when a fish hits.
If you ever find youself up my way I'd be glad to show you that wire line is no big deal (I admit it was tough at the start).
It won't even cost you 200 bucks. Just bring some Crown Royal with you and we'll smile in the my boat.
In the meantime let me add this:
The one big mistake I corrected with wire line was---after the proper amount of line was out you put the motor in neutral and wait, wait, wait till the line sinks (JWT explains this well). You will definitely know when the lure hits bottom as there w ill be a slight drag. Immediately run the boat forward to feel the bump. Maybe adjust the length, little more or a little less depending on the feel. Soft bottoms are harder to feel as you know but you can still feel. There is no question on hard bottoms the feel of the lure and wire goes right to your rod hand.
One other thing. You can use smaller sizes rather than the recommended size for the depth. Buck told me this and I was skeptical until I tried it. Yeah, no matter what size lure metal sinks if given enough time! The speeds are slower at these depths so the lure will not ride up off the bottom.
I use 12lb wire. Perhaps the heavier tests give better results. I don't know as I've never tried them. Some day, maybe.
Also, you'll always know when a fish hits.
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Jerry Borst
- 800 series
- Posts: 771
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:00 pm
- Location: Northern IL
Doug,
If we were to get out for a little "wire time" we might as well do it when and where we can land a few fish. So how's about you coming up north, I'll put you up for a couple days, in say Nov.-Dec. At that time the pike stay deep most of the time. (40'-50'). Or You could also meet us at Eagle Lake in Ontario 2nd-3rd week of Oct. Bring the rain gear, ha,ha.
Last year we didn't spend much time in 60' but in 05 we hit walleye on the troll off a 55'-60' break.
We messed around out there for 2 reasons 1st because we had a brighter clearer morning than the previous day and we quit getting them in 40'- 50' and 2nd just to see if we could. I love wire man!
Running all the depths even running in depths that appear to our eye as void of structure tells us stuff. I just like knowing where everything is.
Jerry
815-351-4241
If we were to get out for a little "wire time" we might as well do it when and where we can land a few fish. So how's about you coming up north, I'll put you up for a couple days, in say Nov.-Dec. At that time the pike stay deep most of the time. (40'-50'). Or You could also meet us at Eagle Lake in Ontario 2nd-3rd week of Oct. Bring the rain gear, ha,ha.
Last year we didn't spend much time in 60' but in 05 we hit walleye on the troll off a 55'-60' break.
We messed around out there for 2 reasons 1st because we had a brighter clearer morning than the previous day and we quit getting them in 40'- 50' and 2nd just to see if we could. I love wire man!
Running all the depths even running in depths that appear to our eye as void of structure tells us stuff. I just like knowing where everything is.
Jerry
815-351-4241
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John Bales
- JB2
- Posts: 2479
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:51 pm
Wire
Hello Mr. Bush, Some places as you describe can be hair pullers until you find the right line legnth to tip the tops of whatever it is down there. I remember in the early days trying to troll a few of the deeper breaklines at pickwick down by the steam plant. Just about the time you would get your line legnth right you were hung. Sometimes you wouldnt even bump yet and you were hung. A few times doing that and you are ready to do some unordinary things. Trial and error is the only way that you can get the correct line legnths on any particular situation. I love those places where you can walk all day and never get hung on anything but a fish. Those others can be nail biters and then some.
At lake Chicamauga, Frank told me about an underwater dam that ran across the reservoir and said that it was very difficult to troll. I think that the top of it was between 25 and 30 feet deep. The wife and I went there and with some sightings were finally able to stay on it at least enough to catch a few fish. The bad part was that for each fish, it cost us a lure. After a few fish, we decided it just wasnt worth it. If they were all big fish, I wouldnt have cared about the lost lures but they were not giants.
There are two guidelines that made me look deeper plus the help of Frank Hamill to open up my mind and think for myself. One was "The older and larger a fish becomes, the more reluctant that he is to go towards the shallows". The other one was a statement that Mr. Perry made about the muskies. He said that after the spawn the biggest muskies most likely will not make it to the shallows for the rest of the season, and will spend their time in and around whatever his sanctuary depth is. This is what led me to the biggest fish in the Detroit river. I have told all and showed a handfull how to do it. It is like picking cherries when the biggest fish become active. We do what everyone else does by waiting for the fish to become active but we do it all downstairs(in the bottom of the channel)......... Lucky for us that the bottoms are very hard and workable with very few snags. Without a good bottom we could not walk and make the fish take. If it was loaded with snags then we would just have to do the best that we could by tipping the tops of the snags and running free the rest of the time. You have to weigh what is caught to the efforts and your cost of lost lures. Sometimes we stick it out and sometimes you tell everyone and everything to go to %^&*(~!@!##!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the deal. You can fish lakes with water color and a lot of the time, you do not have to fish very deep to make a catch and be satisfied. Sometime along the way, you will be faced with a weather condition where the fish do not come to you and if you want to make a catch, you must check deeper. Here is another guideline. "If you are not catching fish, you are not fishing deep enough". This alone should tell everyone not to stop going deeper untill you have shot your wad either as deep as the features go or as deep as you have confidence in or if be even deeper than the features go.
Years ago at one of the Muskegon outings, the wife and I spent all day working from the weedline to about 30 feet. This is the depth that the book said to carry your depth control to. Mr. Perry was there in the evening answering everybodys questions. I explained to him what we did and then asked if what I did was enough? He then gave me an eye opener. He said that at one time, going to 30 to 35 feet was good enough but with the clearer waters he believed that we needed to carry it as far as 60 feet. He then told me to go out there with the wire and the 800's and sink the lures and countour troll the deeper water and that will show me where to concentrate my efforts. My only thought was to say who me? Hell, I'm not capable of doing that. I didnt say it but I sure thought it.
Here is what happens when you begin to carry your depth control deeper and this goes for where ever you fish. During those times that you are not catching fish, you continue to check a little deeper than before. You will have some success in places and not so good in others but where you do have success, you gain that knowledge that you take to the next trip. Little by little, you gain confidence and begin to see just where the success is had in the deep water. Your structures and species may be different but your interpretation of them will get better. In time, you will recognize a situation and know that this is the place where you want to concentrate all of your efforts for the biggest fish of whatever species that you are after. You will just know!
Some fishermen are satisfied with a school of 3 to 4 lb bass and there is nothing wrong with that at all. We are all a bit different in what satisfies us and also in setting our goals. Some of us would rather catch one giant bass than a bunch of just good ones. I enjoy both but prefer the biggest fish of whatever species.
And another thing. While searching for the biggest of the species, you had better not plan on catching a lot of fish because you wont. If you are one that doesnt skip over checking all of the depths, you wont miss much but it is when you are out there looking for the one big one and skip over the shallows and the mid depths you will miss the fish a lot of times. You will get the biggest if you are on the money when it happens but your buddies will score more often by sticking with the guidelines.
Our clearer waters are forcing us to learn more about fishing deep. Its hard to believe how our natural lakes have changed. The best ones back in the 70's you wouldnt walk across the street to fish. The weeds are to 20 + feet and there is moss on the bottoms where you used to be able to walk the bottoms all over the place at 7-8 feet. They have turned into drinking water lakes not fishing water. This is why we must learn to fish deeper.
I could go on and on.
Doug, you can do it on your own if you want to. You could buy a few bottles of Crown Royal with that kind of money. I can see you now. Three bottles of Crown Royal sitting on the seat and trolling a 46 foot breakline where the main channel swings near the base breakline and saying as you are fighting an 8 lb bass" What took me so long"? John
At lake Chicamauga, Frank told me about an underwater dam that ran across the reservoir and said that it was very difficult to troll. I think that the top of it was between 25 and 30 feet deep. The wife and I went there and with some sightings were finally able to stay on it at least enough to catch a few fish. The bad part was that for each fish, it cost us a lure. After a few fish, we decided it just wasnt worth it. If they were all big fish, I wouldnt have cared about the lost lures but they were not giants.
There are two guidelines that made me look deeper plus the help of Frank Hamill to open up my mind and think for myself. One was "The older and larger a fish becomes, the more reluctant that he is to go towards the shallows". The other one was a statement that Mr. Perry made about the muskies. He said that after the spawn the biggest muskies most likely will not make it to the shallows for the rest of the season, and will spend their time in and around whatever his sanctuary depth is. This is what led me to the biggest fish in the Detroit river. I have told all and showed a handfull how to do it. It is like picking cherries when the biggest fish become active. We do what everyone else does by waiting for the fish to become active but we do it all downstairs(in the bottom of the channel)......... Lucky for us that the bottoms are very hard and workable with very few snags. Without a good bottom we could not walk and make the fish take. If it was loaded with snags then we would just have to do the best that we could by tipping the tops of the snags and running free the rest of the time. You have to weigh what is caught to the efforts and your cost of lost lures. Sometimes we stick it out and sometimes you tell everyone and everything to go to %^&*(~!@!##!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the deal. You can fish lakes with water color and a lot of the time, you do not have to fish very deep to make a catch and be satisfied. Sometime along the way, you will be faced with a weather condition where the fish do not come to you and if you want to make a catch, you must check deeper. Here is another guideline. "If you are not catching fish, you are not fishing deep enough". This alone should tell everyone not to stop going deeper untill you have shot your wad either as deep as the features go or as deep as you have confidence in or if be even deeper than the features go.
Years ago at one of the Muskegon outings, the wife and I spent all day working from the weedline to about 30 feet. This is the depth that the book said to carry your depth control to. Mr. Perry was there in the evening answering everybodys questions. I explained to him what we did and then asked if what I did was enough? He then gave me an eye opener. He said that at one time, going to 30 to 35 feet was good enough but with the clearer waters he believed that we needed to carry it as far as 60 feet. He then told me to go out there with the wire and the 800's and sink the lures and countour troll the deeper water and that will show me where to concentrate my efforts. My only thought was to say who me? Hell, I'm not capable of doing that. I didnt say it but I sure thought it.
Here is what happens when you begin to carry your depth control deeper and this goes for where ever you fish. During those times that you are not catching fish, you continue to check a little deeper than before. You will have some success in places and not so good in others but where you do have success, you gain that knowledge that you take to the next trip. Little by little, you gain confidence and begin to see just where the success is had in the deep water. Your structures and species may be different but your interpretation of them will get better. In time, you will recognize a situation and know that this is the place where you want to concentrate all of your efforts for the biggest fish of whatever species that you are after. You will just know!
Some fishermen are satisfied with a school of 3 to 4 lb bass and there is nothing wrong with that at all. We are all a bit different in what satisfies us and also in setting our goals. Some of us would rather catch one giant bass than a bunch of just good ones. I enjoy both but prefer the biggest fish of whatever species.
And another thing. While searching for the biggest of the species, you had better not plan on catching a lot of fish because you wont. If you are one that doesnt skip over checking all of the depths, you wont miss much but it is when you are out there looking for the one big one and skip over the shallows and the mid depths you will miss the fish a lot of times. You will get the biggest if you are on the money when it happens but your buddies will score more often by sticking with the guidelines.
Our clearer waters are forcing us to learn more about fishing deep. Its hard to believe how our natural lakes have changed. The best ones back in the 70's you wouldnt walk across the street to fish. The weeds are to 20 + feet and there is moss on the bottoms where you used to be able to walk the bottoms all over the place at 7-8 feet. They have turned into drinking water lakes not fishing water. This is why we must learn to fish deeper.
I could go on and on.
Doug, you can do it on your own if you want to. You could buy a few bottles of Crown Royal with that kind of money. I can see you now. Three bottles of Crown Royal sitting on the seat and trolling a 46 foot breakline where the main channel swings near the base breakline and saying as you are fighting an 8 lb bass" What took me so long"? John
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DouglasBush
Not a dumbo in the use of wire
I want to make sure you guys understand I'm not some dumbo when it comes to using wire. I've used it for years, even used it to run a short line with 200's...and I can handle 25 feet.
Its when things get PAST that depth that everything goes to hell.
And with the clear water nowadays...25 feet deep breaklines are nothing (unless you have a camera that will show you fish in 25 foot depths away from breaklines and in places where the book says "they won't be".)
And I have sat there and waited and waited and waited and waited for the lure to sink and then when I started the boat moving, in a few minutes I could look back and there is a spoonplug on top of the water loaded down with a bunch of leaves or roots.
Then "vigorous rod action" never worked with the lure that far away, so...reel it in, clean it, send it back out, and wait for the entire process to begin again. By then the wind has blown the marker buoy lines into an angle that conflicts with the trolling pass and now we have a spoonplug hung in a marker buoy line...so we reel in again. And in the process of cleaning up this new mess, one of the markers is too close to the engine and now we have marker buoy line whirling around and around the prop shaft.
To top that off, somehow the wire line falls in love with the prop also and starts joining in the melee by orgasmically wrapping itself around the shaft also as the reel drag screams from the speed of this and it jams up too...then the rod tip breaks off and there's another 40 bucks gone down the drain.
And if anyone messing around in that super deep water with wire says this stuff hasnt happened to them....I think they're doing some heavy drugs.
Thats fun???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Regards,
Doug Bush
Its when things get PAST that depth that everything goes to hell.
And with the clear water nowadays...25 feet deep breaklines are nothing (unless you have a camera that will show you fish in 25 foot depths away from breaklines and in places where the book says "they won't be".)
And I have sat there and waited and waited and waited and waited for the lure to sink and then when I started the boat moving, in a few minutes I could look back and there is a spoonplug on top of the water loaded down with a bunch of leaves or roots.
Then "vigorous rod action" never worked with the lure that far away, so...reel it in, clean it, send it back out, and wait for the entire process to begin again. By then the wind has blown the marker buoy lines into an angle that conflicts with the trolling pass and now we have a spoonplug hung in a marker buoy line...so we reel in again. And in the process of cleaning up this new mess, one of the markers is too close to the engine and now we have marker buoy line whirling around and around the prop shaft.
To top that off, somehow the wire line falls in love with the prop also and starts joining in the melee by orgasmically wrapping itself around the shaft also as the reel drag screams from the speed of this and it jams up too...then the rod tip breaks off and there's another 40 bucks gone down the drain.
And if anyone messing around in that super deep water with wire says this stuff hasnt happened to them....I think they're doing some heavy drugs.
Thats fun???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Regards,
Doug Bush
Not a dumbo
Douglas,
Your post on wire was a sketch. Right out of a "Mr Bean" comedy routine. You left out the part about you and your partner getting lines snarled making a turn because one of the lures wasn't running straight.
Your post on wire was a sketch. Right out of a "Mr Bean" comedy routine. You left out the part about you and your partner getting lines snarled making a turn because one of the lures wasn't running straight.
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pat maio
dougle trouble
Douglas:
All that you said was true.
But if youo think that is bad try multiplying by 2.
I and my wife learned the wire at the same time
All that you said was true.
But if youo think that is bad try multiplying by 2.
I and my wife learned the wire at the same time